51

Re: Fireface 802fs + Ferrofish Pulse 16 + Totalmix For Analog Summing ???

vinark wrote:

I understand but if you hear no difference you are obviously listening to something else from cubase. If you change the volume IN THE CONTROL ROOM, does the volume change audibly?

Remember nor the driver nor TMFX do anything else then passing what you send to it (now direct monitoring is off).
Insert something else then sonarworks to see if that changes anything.

The dedicated control room volume makes no difference. Toggling back and forth from mix to cue has no difference. The cue being if I've set up a headphone mix tied to a dedicated hardware output. Clicking the stereo/mono button makes no difference either. I even can pull down the cubase stereo out fader and it makes no difference, which tells me that the audio HAS to be happening from Totamix and not Cubase. So how do I get the audio to pass back through cubase, if that what needs to happen? Again, completely stumped here.

52 (edited by vinark 2024-12-12 20:40:09)

Re: Fireface 802fs + Ferrofish Pulse 16 + Totalmix For Analog Summing ???

I don't think you understand TMFX or you explain it wrong. The bottom faders are the outputs, subgroups. You select a submix by clicking on it. All first and second row fader are what you are sending to this subgroup/mix. Click on output adat 1 2. Now all top rows should be down. In the middle row only the channel from cubase you want to send there should be up, for summing mixer 1 2. Now click on adat 3 4 and do the same etc.
Now click on the output bottom fader that is connected to your speakers. All top row should be down, you don't want to heear hardware inputs from totalmix. In the middle row only the fader that is connected to your control room out must be up, the rest down.
FYI the top and middle faders only send to harware outs, not to cubase or inputs. The inputs are always working for recording no matter what you do with the faders or mutes. It is only a giant mixer for what you want to hear and in your case send to the summingmixer.
If this does not help it is back to the rme tmfx videos.

Vincent, Amsterdam
https://soundcloud.com/thesecretworld
BFpro fs, 2X HDSP9652 ADI-8AE, 2X HDSP9632

Re: Fireface 802fs + Ferrofish Pulse 16 + Totalmix For Analog Summing ???

MSR wrote:

That "print" track has it's output set to stereo out. The control room is receiving that signal, as when I mute the print track, the cubase stereo out led's goes away. So, the question is, how the ever loving heck could the control room be receiving a signal, yet NOT the audio,

What do you mean ?
Do you want to make it this way ? 
Or it is going this way but it is unwanted ?

Please stay on one thing and describe it properly.
In the beginning it was the issue the metronome click from Cubase shall be in the headphone.
Did you find out how to route the metronome to the headphone ?

M1-Sequoia, Madiface Pro, Digiface USB, Babyface silver and blue

54

Re: Fireface 802fs + Ferrofish Pulse 16 + Totalmix For Analog Summing ???

vinark wrote:

I don't think you understand TMFX or you explain it wrong. The bottom faders are the outputs, subgroups. You select a submix by clicking on it. All first and second row fader are what you are sending to this subgroup/mix. Click on output adat 1 2. Now all top rows should be down. In the middle row only the channel from cubase you want to send there should be up, for summing mixer 1 2. Now click on adat 3 4 and do the same etc.
Now click on the output bottom fader that is connected to your speakers. All top row should be down, you don't want to heear hardware inputs from totalmix. In the middle row only the fader that is connected to your control room out must be up, the rest down.
FYI the top and middle faders only send to harware outs, not to cubase or inputs. The inputs are always working for recording no matter what you do with the faders or mutes. It is only a giant mixer for what you want to hear and in your case send to the summingmixer.
If this does not help it is back to the rme tmfx videos.

I'm pretty sure that's what I've done, but I'll go back yet again and go through your explanation line by line. And I've watched all of those Totalmix tutorials over and over and... Lol Which is why it's driving me batty that I've lost control of the Cubase control room!

Will report back later today. Thanks again!

55

Re: Fireface 802fs + Ferrofish Pulse 16 + Totalmix For Analog Summing ???

waedi wrote:
MSR wrote:

That "print" track has it's output set to stereo out. The control room is receiving that signal, as when I mute the print track, the cubase stereo out led's goes away. So, the question is, how the ever loving heck could the control room be receiving a signal, yet NOT the audio,

What do you mean ?
Do you want to make it this way ? 
Or it is going this way but it is unwanted ?

Please stay on one thing and describe it properly.
In the beginning it was the issue the metronome click from Cubase shall be in the headphone.
Did you find out how to route the metronome to the headphone ?

Sorry, yes, I figured out the click issue. Just had to pull up the software fader that's connected to my cue mix in Cubase.

56

Re: Fireface 802fs + Ferrofish Pulse 16 + Totalmix For Analog Summing ???

vinark wrote:

I don't think you understand TMFX or you explain it wrong. The bottom faders are the outputs, subgroups. You select a submix by clicking on it. All first and second row fader are what you are sending to this subgroup/mix. Click on output adat 1 2. Now all top rows should be down. In the middle row only the channel from cubase you want to send there should be up, for summing mixer 1 2. Now click on adat 3 4 and do the same etc.
Now click on the output bottom fader that is connected to your speakers. All top row should be down, you don't want to heear hardware inputs from totalmix. In the middle row only the fader that is connected to your control room out must be up, the rest down.
FYI the top and middle faders only send to harware outs, not to cubase or inputs. The inputs are always working for recording no matter what you do with the faders or mutes. It is only a giant mixer for what you want to hear and in your case send to the summingmixer.
If this does not help it is back to the rme tmfx videos.

Ok, here's where the disconnect is, I think. The summing mixer is coming in on analog 1/2, not adat. In my case, I wind up with 16 channels of adat, middle row, being pulled up, connected to their respective hardware output on the bottom row. E.g., I click on adat 1/2 at bottom, and ONLY the fader on middle row, that's assigned to it (also adat 1/2) is up. I did the same thing for all bottom row (hardware) outs.

The output bottom fader that's connected to my speakers is over to the right, the totalmix control room. I click that, and I HAVE to have the input channel up at the top that's sending my summed mix back into cubase, analog 1/2, otherwise, I can't capture the summed mix in cubase, or at least that's the only way that makes sense to me. That's exactly how I did it with the old interface anyway.

When you said, "In the middle row only the fader that is connected to your control room out must be up, the rest down.", well all of those faders on my middle row are the individual adat outs that go to my summing mixer, so they all have to be up. Since my speakers are connected via analog 1/2 out of the FF, should I see a signal in the middle row on AN 1/2, because I don't.

Yes, I can pull up all middle row adat channels to connect them to the analog 1/2 bottom row, and thus send audio to the speakers, but then I'm not capturing the summed mix from the hardware chain, as it comes back into cubase. Therefore, in my case, when I click on analog out 1/2 on bottom row (inside the totalmix control room), their are no faders up in the middle, all hardware outs bottom row are up, and analog 1/2 top row is up.

All I keep coming back to is that this routing is fairly common for analog summing. And I gotta say it again, worked perfectly with the Quantum interface. I'm keeping my fingers crossed that there's got to be something I'm doing wrong, or may have to route differently, in order to achieve Control room functionality again.

Please, call me out if I'm being dense and not understanding. But I think I understand the basic routing stuff fairly well. I mean, I have to stop and think about it sometimes because its not 2nd nature yet, but still.

Re: Fireface 802fs + Ferrofish Pulse 16 + Totalmix For Analog Summing ???

In a previous post you say you can record the summed signal from the analog mixer in Cubase now.

So where is the issue ?

You can do the summing work you can record the final result, all good, or not ?

M1-Sequoia, Madiface Pro, Digiface USB, Babyface silver and blue

Re: Fireface 802fs + Ferrofish Pulse 16 + Totalmix For Analog Summing ???

No NO you don't want the summed mix up in the top row if you want to listen to it via cubase. That fader does not send it to cubase but to the outputs. And when you click on your output bus, bottom channel only the control room must be up.
Or are you not in submix mode but free mode in tmfx? If free mode the that is the second issue after asio direct.
When you click on a bottom submix all faders must jump to the settings for that submix. Hope we are getting closer.

Vincent, Amsterdam
https://soundcloud.com/thesecretworld
BFpro fs, 2X HDSP9652 ADI-8AE, 2X HDSP9632

59

Re: Fireface 802fs + Ferrofish Pulse 16 + Totalmix For Analog Summing ???

waedi wrote:

In a previous post you say you can record the summed signal from the analog mixer in Cubase now.

So where is the issue ?

You can do the summing work you can record the final result, all good, or not ?

Not. Yes I can record the summed mix. BUT, I'm limited now because 1, I can't use my reference plugin, that needs to be on either the cubase stereo out, or preferably the control room insert, and 2, I can't use my headphone and room correction software(s) that need's to be inserted on the cubase control room insert... this is no it's never in the path of an audio render, and 3, I use plugins within this summing chain, typically inserted on the INPUT channel, to embellish my mix as needed. When I do that now, they make absolutely no audible difference.

Surely there's a way. Maybe RME support will get back to me eventually.

60 (edited by waedi 2024-12-12 23:46:44)

Re: Fireface 802fs + Ferrofish Pulse 16 + Totalmix For Analog Summing ???

This has nothing to do with RME, it is pure Cubase handling.
As you have the summed signal in Cubase just hit the monitor button in the recording track in Cubase and the incoming signal from the mixer will be forwarded thru the Cubase control room. The output of this track has to be Stereo-out.

https://i.ibb.co/2jz06wz/monitor-button.jpg

M1-Sequoia, Madiface Pro, Digiface USB, Babyface silver and blue

Re: Fireface 802fs + Ferrofish Pulse 16 + Totalmix For Analog Summing ???

I still think, based on your "In total mix I have all the hardware outs (bottom row) faders up, and sent to the 1st input on the top row (analog 1&2). ", you do not comprehend the very basic concept of TM. What you describe is very far from how TM works.

Maybe print screen of TM faders, or even better the matrix could help to pinpoint better the source of problems....

FF UCX II, Digiface USB, Babyface Pro FS

62

Re: Fireface 802fs + Ferrofish Pulse 16 + Totalmix For Analog Summing ???

vinark wrote:

No NO you don't want the summed mix up in the top row if you want to listen to it via cubase. That fader does not send it to cubase but to the outputs. And when you click on your output bus, bottom channel only the control room must be up.
Or are you not in submix mode but free mode in tmfx? If free mode the that is the second issue after asio direct.
When you click on a bottom submix all faders must jump to the settings for that submix. Hope we are getting closer.

Definitely in submix mode. But if I'm not supposed the pull up a top row, how can I get that signal ( which is summed mix feeding into analog 1/2) back into cubase? In order for the summed mix to show up on the print channel, I have raise the top row, which I get now why not to do, but how?

I can't get the snippet tool to take a pic while the projects playing, in order for you to see the leds and get a better idea of what's going on. But again, all the adata outs on the bottom row are up, and only the 1st fader at the top row was up. Note, if I highlight one of the bottom adat faders, the corresponding fader in the middle row jumps up, etc. this is how it should be, correct? If I bring the top row fader down, then there's no signal hitting the middle row, so now I'm still confused apparently.

And does the fact that I'm sending the physical outs 1/2 to my speakers, but the corresponding analog 1/2 in has the summed mix coming in? The ins aren't tied to the outs are they, unless I want them to be of course.

63

Re: Fireface 802fs + Ferrofish Pulse 16 + Totalmix For Analog Summing ???

Kubrak wrote:

I still think, based on your "In total mix I have all the hardware outs (bottom row) faders up, and sent to the 1st input on the top row (analog 1&2). ", you do not comprehend the very basic concept of TM. What you describe is very far from how TM works.

Maybe print screen of TM faders, or even better the matrix could help to pinpoint better the source of problems....

hmmm. so hold on. Aren't the bottom rows the physical outputs of my system? That's all of my analog summing outputs. What I mean by "sent to 1st input on the top row" it was because I'm recording the summed mix through input 1/2 (top row). What am I missing?

Re: Fireface 802fs + Ferrofish Pulse 16 + Totalmix For Analog Summing ???

The input channel 1/2 top row, you don't need to lift the fader for Cubase recording.
The signal in the inputs are available in the DAW directly, no matter what you do in Totalmix.
Only for listening on the loudspeakers it is relevant, but you don't want to listen this signal directly, you want to listen the signal after it is processed thru Cubase control room.

Did you switch on the monitor in cubase input track to have the summed signal in the control room ?

M1-Sequoia, Madiface Pro, Digiface USB, Babyface silver and blue

65

Re: Fireface 802fs + Ferrofish Pulse 16 + Totalmix For Analog Summing ???

waedi wrote:

The input channel 1/2 top row, you don't need to lift the fader for Cubase recording.
The signal in the inputs are available in the DAW directly, no matter what you do in Totalmix.
Only for listening on the loudspeakers it is relevant, but you don't want to listen this signal directly, you want to listen the signal after it is processed thru Cubase control room.

Did you switch on the monitor in cubase input track to have the summed signal in the control room ?

I do, but I say again, if I turn down the top row analog 1/2, the middle row then gets no signal, thus, no signal flows into Cubase.

66 (edited by waedi 2024-12-13 02:42:16)

Re: Fireface 802fs + Ferrofish Pulse 16 + Totalmix For Analog Summing ???

Is there any Loopback active in Totalmix ? Switch off.
From what you say there is something wrong routed in Totalmix and also in Cubase.
You probably did assign the output 1/2 to main-out and then inside the main-out activated the Loopback.
Wich is no longer useful.
Switch Loopback off.
The analog mixer output is connected to the Fireface inputs 1/2, right ?
Then the summed signal is inside Cubase on input 1/2, no matter what the fader is. For sure.

M1-Sequoia, Madiface Pro, Digiface USB, Babyface silver and blue

67 (edited by MSR 2024-12-13 02:51:29)

Re: Fireface 802fs + Ferrofish Pulse 16 + Totalmix For Analog Summing ???

waedi wrote:

Is there any Loopback active in Totalmix ? Switch off.
From what you say there is something wrong routed in Totalmix and also in Cubase.
You probably did assign the output 1/2 to main-out and then inside the main-out activated the Loopback.
Wich is no longer useful.
Switch Loopback off.
The analog mixer output is connected to the Fireface inputs 1/2, right ?
Then the summed signal is inside Cubase on input 1/2, no matter what the fader is. For sure.

Loopback was on, on the Main in Totalmix, so analog out 1/2. I turned it off, but so far it's behaving the same. Yes, the analog summing mixer output is connected to the inputs 1/2 of the FF. Yes, the summed signal is appearing on the print track, with 1/2 assigned as inputs. IF I had control room functionality Id be golden, but no go.

After turning off loopback, I play the song, lower the top row 1/2 fader, and the signal that was appearing on the 1st fader of middle row dissapears.

68 (edited by waedi 2024-12-13 03:24:55)

Re: Fireface 802fs + Ferrofish Pulse 16 + Totalmix For Analog Summing ???

Has any other output Loopback on ?
Please check every output and switch all Loopbacks off.
And also for every output the input 1/2 fader shall be down.
Click every output one by one and check the fader of input 1/2.

M1-Sequoia, Madiface Pro, Digiface USB, Babyface silver and blue

69 (edited by MSR 2024-12-13 03:31:57)

Re: Fireface 802fs + Ferrofish Pulse 16 + Totalmix For Analog Summing ???

waedi wrote:

Is there any Loopback active in Totalmix ? Switch off.
From what you say there is something wrong routed in Totalmix and also in Cubase.
You probably did assign the output 1/2 to main-out and then inside the main-out activated the Loopback.
Wich is no longer useful.
Switch Loopback off.
The analog mixer output is connected to the Fireface inputs 1/2, right ?
Then the summed signal is inside Cubase on input 1/2, no matter what the fader is. For sure.

I just got the control room to work!, not sure why this time, but now the top row fader is down, and the signal is still feeding into the middle row 1/2, so still able to record the summed mix, and now have full control room functionality. Halle - freakin -lujah!

It had to be the loop back that was screwing things up, maybe? But then again, on that last response, I'd turned off loopback and did this exact same fader switch, but heck, who knows what I did at this point! LOL  Any chance loopback takes a bit to disengage?

Regardless, I dumbfounded that I've been battling this beast for 3 days now, and all I had to do was (maybe) turn off loopback, and switch two faders around.

Thanks ever so much for hanging in there with me!

70

Re: Fireface 802fs + Ferrofish Pulse 16 + Totalmix For Analog Summing ???

Much thanks to everyone that jumped in to help on this. if you saw my previous response, I finally figured it out, and the Cubase control room is functioning properly now. I greatly appreciate all of you!

71 (edited by waedi 2024-12-13 03:49:45)

Re: Fireface 802fs + Ferrofish Pulse 16 + Totalmix For Analog Summing ???

Thanks for your feedback.

just one more little torturing for you.

When you say the top row fader is down, then this is meaningless without knowing for wich output.
This fader position is only working for the active (highlighted) hardware output channel bottom row.

Same for the middle row. The upper faders top row and middle row only showing the position of the active output.
Click onto another output, those fader will jump to different positions.
Every output has its own configuration of fader positions ( submix)

Good for now. Happy mixing !

M1-Sequoia, Madiface Pro, Digiface USB, Babyface silver and blue

72

Re: Fireface 802fs + Ferrofish Pulse 16 + Totalmix For Analog Summing ???

MSR wrote:

I've yet to find a direct monitoring switch in totalmix

TM FX Preferences (F2): Disable ASIO Direct Monitoring. Not needed if you deactivated it in Cubase already.

Regards
Matthias Carstens
RME

Re: Fireface 802fs + Ferrofish Pulse 16 + Totalmix For Analog Summing ???

MSR wrote:
Kubrak wrote:

I still think, based on your "In total mix I have all the hardware outs (bottom row) faders up, and sent to the 1st input on the top row (analog 1&2). ", you do not comprehend the very basic concept of TM. What you describe is very far from how TM works.

Maybe print screen of TM faders, or even better the matrix could help to pinpoint better the source of problems....

hmmm. so hold on. Aren't the bottom rows the physical outputs of my system? That's all of my analog summing outputs. What I mean by "sent to 1st input on the top row" it was because I'm recording the summed mix through input 1/2 (top row). What am I missing?

Each physical output (the bottom row) has its own submix (from top row and middle row). The fader on bottom row sets the strenght of signal of submix for given physical output.

If I wanted to have summed HW inputs and/or DAW outputs I would make submix for analog out 1/2 and set loopback analog in 1/2 in DAW would receive summed signal.

FF UCX II, Digiface USB, Babyface Pro FS

Re: Fireface 802fs + Ferrofish Pulse 16 + Totalmix For Analog Summing ???

trying to help you think this through, keeping it simple.

1. In cubase, the normal stereo out is disabled, control room is on and set to outputs 1+2 which feed the monitors
2. In totalmix, the main out is set to outputs 1+2. The only thing feeding that main out is software output 1+2 (the second row in TM)
3. The are a couple cubase groups feeding some other outputs, say adat(or Madi) 1/2 and 3/4. Those physical outputs (bottom row) have only their respective software output (middle row, Madi 1/2, 3/4) feeding them.
4. At this point we have your 2 groups in cubase feeding the summing mixer and nothing else.
5. Stereo out of summing mixer is plugged in physical input 1/2 on the interface.
6. There is a "print" track in cubase using inputs 1/2. This is set to monitor input signal, and sent to stereo out (control room).
7. Make sure loopback is not enabled for outputs 1/2, this will disable the physical inputs.

This should work!

Next for monitoring whatever you are recording, ideally you are using the physical input in total mix routed to main out in total mix to have the basically 0 latency. If you are using say a software instrument inside cubase, keep it simple and just set to the stereo out. You could also have it routed to some subgroup to the summing mixer and it should monitor through where you are hearing everything else. BUT, keep it simple and just get one of the most basic things working first, like a drum subgroup monitoring and printing correctly, then move on to the next group which would be the same idea.

Also, to keep things simple at first, make sure whatever you have assigned to the headphone output is mirroring the main mix.

Hope that helps. Once you wrap your head around it, the light bulb will go on and it will seem easy and intuitive, and extremely flexible too!