• Registered: 2008-01-31
  • Posts: 35

Topic: Strange problem of high frequency loss with ADI-8 DS Mkiii + HDSPe AES

Hi,

I am currently running Cubase 8.0.30 with an ADI-8 DS mkiii connected via AES to a HDSPe AES card. I am usually running on 24 bits @ 48Khz.
Output 1+2 of the ADI-8 are used as main outs to the monitors.
Outputs/Inputs 3+4 are used as stereo insert on the master buss (for some analog units).

Yesterday I noticed that the ouput was losing significant high end frequencies when the insert was enabled. It was almost like a high cut/shelf filter starting aroung 2Khz was inserted. I confirmed this by putting a signal generator plugin before the insert, and measuring the spectrum after the insert with a frequency analyser plugin.

When the insert was disabled high end was ok. When the insert was enabled (passing through an additional DA - AD) the same loss of high-end occurred. I know 'some' minor degradation is to be expected but this was too obvious and never noticed before.

Even after removing all external effects units on the insert (so directly connecting outputs 3+4 to inputs 3+4 on the ADI-8), I noticed that high end was lost when the insert was enabled.

I subsequently tested some other input/output combinations on the ADI-8 DS, and the same problem occurred. Also when directly recording into inputs 1+2 what I put out on output 1+2, high end was lost.

I figured, the AD converter on all inputs was somehow 'broken'. Resetting devices, PC did not help.

Today I tried the same test on 24 bits 192KHz and the problem did NOT occur anymore.
Even after switching back to 24 bits 48KHz, the problem did NOT occur anymore.

After turning of the ADI-8 DS and turning it on again, the problem DID occur again.
Again, switching to 192Khz in Cubase and back to 48Khz 'solved' the problem.

Anybody know what is going on ? Is the synchronisation between ADI-8 and AES card somehow going wrong ?
Is there somehow a wrong low pass filter in the ADI-8 Ad converter enabled or something ?
Is there something else which could be causing this ?

Regards,
Maarten Ligtenberg

PS, I am running on:
Windows 7 SP 1 x64
I7 4790K (not-overclocked)
16 GB RAM
256 Gb SSD
HDSP driver 4.11

  • Registered: 2008-01-31
  • Posts: 35

Re: Strange problem of high frequency loss with ADI-8 DS Mkiii + HDSPe AES

Startup order seems to be significant as well:

Startup ADI-8 before PC --> No problem
Startup PC before ADI-8 --> Problem. Can only be fixed by changing sample rates

3 Reply by MC

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Re: Strange problem of high frequency loss with ADI-8 DS Mkiii + HDSPe AES

Check the clock settings on the unit and in the Settings dialog. The AES card should be set to Master/Internal.

Regards
Matthias Carstens
RME

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4 Reply by maartenl945 (edited by maartenl945 2015-10-14 18:38:10)

  • Registered: 2008-01-31
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Re: Strange problem of high frequency loss with ADI-8 DS Mkiii + HDSPe AES

Thanks for the reply. Unfortunately, the clock settings are already correct I believe. See pictures.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/8unzn6saxbm0o … s.JPG?dl=0

https://www.dropbox.com/s/g1c051e8qchk5 … s.png?dl=0


When the problem occurs, it can also be solved by cycling the clock settings on the ADI-8 unit. So going from AES all the way back to AES.

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Re: Strange problem of high frequency loss with ADI-8 DS Mkiii + HDSPe AES

What is the firmware version of the AES card? Shown in the About tab of the Settings dialog.

Also please make a screenshot of the Settings dialog when the problem occurs.

Regards
Matthias Carstens
RME

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6 Reply by maartenl945 (edited by maartenl945 2015-10-15 08:15:05)

  • Registered: 2008-01-31
  • Posts: 35

Re: Strange problem of high frequency loss with ADI-8 DS Mkiii + HDSPe AES

I can easily reproduce the problem by just turning off the ADI unit and then turning it on again. The settings are still the same as already sent though. Just to be sure I made a new screenshot:

https://www.dropbox.com/s/dqj42l4vn0ylu … m.png?dl=0

The about tab of the settings dialog does not seem to display the fw version:

https://www.dropbox.com/s/75f3d9r6lj85i … b.png?dl=0

But I downloaded the firmware update tool and that DOES tell the fw version. It is rev 9:

https://www.dropbox.com/s/4ikta4bb4qiwg … e.png?dl=0

I think the AES card is from around 2008.

Regards,
Maarten

7 Reply by MC

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Re: Strange problem of high frequency loss with ADI-8 DS Mkiii + HDSPe AES

Ok, thanks for the info. One more, please: does the error go away with the DS set to Internal and the AES card set to sync to AES input?

Regards
Matthias Carstens
RME

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  • Registered: 2008-01-31
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Re: Strange problem of high frequency loss with ADI-8 DS Mkiii + HDSPe AES

Yes, if I set the ADI to 48Khz fixed clock and set the AES card to get the clock from AES1 I cannot reproduce the problem anymore.

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Re: Strange problem of high frequency loss with ADI-8 DS Mkiii + HDSPe AES

Ok, I will try to reproduce this with said units in the next days. Stay tuned!

Regards
Matthias Carstens
RME

MC's Website

  • Registered: 2008-01-31
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Re: Strange problem of high frequency loss with ADI-8 DS Mkiii + HDSPe AES

Ok thanks.

Regards,
Maarten

11 Reply by MC

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Re: Strange problem of high frequency loss with ADI-8 DS Mkiii + HDSPe AES

I can not reproduce this with driver 4.11/4.12 and 'Professional' checked in the Settings dialog (your screenshot shows this wrong setting, please change it).

What I did: playing back a stereo file through a HDSPe AES with your settings, routed via TotalMix FX to outputs 3/4. Loopback cabling to input 1/2 or 3/4, routing this input to output 1/2. On 1/2 connect monitors for listening. I also had DIGICheck's Analyzer runing on input 1/2-3/4, so any treble loss would have been visible as well. But there wasn't any when switching the ADI-8 off and on again.

Regards
Matthias Carstens
RME

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  • Registered: 2008-01-31
  • Posts: 35

Re: Strange problem of high frequency loss with ADI-8 DS Mkiii + HDSPe AES

Well, thanks for trying, but at the moment, I cannot reproduce it anymore either.

I do notice something slightly different though. When I turn off my PC (and the ADI-8 unit is left turned on), the leds on the ADI-8 unit start blinking, indicating no sync I guess, which is the way they are supposed to behave.

Only previously, in the period that I had the problem, it didn't do this exactly. Instead, the STATE-QS led would turn on additionally, when the PC was turned off (in addition to the blinking no sync leds). Even though I was in 48Khz sample rate before turning the PC off. (so no high sample rates at all).

Anyway, the immediate problem seems to have vanished, so I'll report back in if I somehow can reproduce it again.  Thanks for trying to reproduce.

Regards,
Maarten

PS: I will turn off the professional setting as well.

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Re: Strange problem of high frequency loss with ADI-8 DS Mkiii + HDSPe AES

Not off, on wink

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  • Registered: 2008-01-31
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Re: Strange problem of high frequency loss with ADI-8 DS Mkiii + HDSPe AES

Ah ok wink

  • Registered: 2008-01-31
  • Posts: 35

Re: Strange problem of high frequency loss with ADI-8 DS Mkiii + HDSPe AES

Just in case anyone ever runs into this with the same problem: 8 years later I noticed the same problem again, and it is finally clear to me what is like causing it. It is likely the (de-)emphasis in the ADI-8DS getting triggered incorrectly, causing a high shelf filter to be applied, cutting high-end. See this thread (post 29 and below) for more info and the suggestion for working around it:
https://www.forum.rme-audio.de/viewtopic.php?id=22733

Regards,
Maarten