Topic: WiiM Pro plus « pre gain » setup issue

Hi,

Happy owner of an ADI-2 pro fs r for non-professional use (Hi-fi), excuse me in advance for my lack of technical knowledge…

When streaming music with my WiiM Pro plus, via Wi-fi, through Spdif/toslink output, I noticed a very high Spdif level (many « red peaks ») thanks to the level control screen.

I found a way to reduce it with the pre-gain setup in WiiM audio-parameters. No more peaks applying a -5db reduction!

Problem : bit-perfect test files don’t succeed anymore. At 0db correction all tests are sucessfull.

Does it really mean conversion is no more bit-perfect? If so, is it a problem to have a Spdif level to high appearing on control screen?

LM

Re: WiiM Pro plus « pre gain » setup issue

What is more important to you personally, a clean, but attenuated signal (hence not "bit-perfect") or a clipped signal? BTW, if the ADI-2 Pro does not say OVR, it's probably still not clipped.

That being said, the bit test is meant as a diagnosis tool to detect if the signal had been unintentionally altered. If you reduce the digital level upstream, it's you who alter the signal and there is no point in bit test.

Fireface UCX II + ARC USB > ADI-2 Pro FS R BE > Neumann KH 750 DSP + MA 1 > KH 120 A

Re: WiiM Pro plus « pre gain » setup issue

Thanks.

Well as level peaks/clipping occurs distorsion issues, I assume that it is objectively worse to let this happen than reducing gain level on my streamer.

It’s a bit annoying even if I must admit that I don’t hear differences between the two situations (peaks with bit-perfect tests passed vs. Lower spdif level with non bit-perfect tests)…

4 (edited by KaiS 2024-12-26 22:37:58)

Re: WiiM Pro plus « pre gain » setup issue

There’s a misconception here about the nature of digital signals:

In (linear PCM-) digital audio “Over” doesn’t exist the same way like in the analog domain, as there’s no digital value for it.

The “Over” in ADI-2 indicates that full scale (the highest possible level) is reached for at least one sample.

From the manual, 15.1 Global Level Meter:
For digital I/Os, Over appears when the signal is at the maximum possible level. As usual in digital audio, Over is already displayed even if there is no real overload.


Therefore reducing the digital level cannot “heal” the very likely already clipped and distorted signals.
The only (negative) result is, you no longer have an indication any more why the music sounds like it does if you feel it sounds distorted.


Leave your player at 0 dB gain to get bit perfect playback.


You will see “Over” with contemporary popular music most of the time.

Why?
We are in the middle of “Loudness War II”.

Producers and record companies again think, that they have to sacrifice sound quality by squeezing out the last bit of loudness with compressing, limiting and clipping their productions, or the audience will think ‘it doesn’t sound good” because it’s a tiny bit quieter than other tracks.

Perverted, but true.


And that’s while we have to face the fact that more and more distribution channels like Spotify, Apple Music, TV broadcasts and many others are working with “loudness normalization”, which brings down the level of all productions to the exact same perceived loudness, no matter how loud they are “produced”.

Super-perverted, but again true.

Re: WiiM Pro plus « pre gain » setup issue

Thank you very much for all these very clear explanations.

I kept trying different settings and indeed I noticed that there is no distorsion even with Spdif streamer output at +10db. Only spdif level meter at max peak all time but no audible conséquences.

So pre-gain is now set at 0db and bit-perfect tests are ok.

6 (edited by KaiS 2024-12-27 16:17:40)

Re: WiiM Pro plus « pre gain » setup issue

LM78 wrote:

I kept trying different settings and indeed I noticed that there is no distorsion even with Spdif streamer output at +10db. Only spdif level meter at max peak all time but no audible conséquences.

I’m curious:
Which music track did you play that can take 10 dB gain without sounding distorted?