Topic: Same stream to Main Outputs + digital for sub integration

Hi,
I have an ADI-2 Pro FS R and I am experimenting with other ways to integrate my 2 subs (Velodyne SB2000Pro) with the main speakers (Dynaudio C1).

At the moment they are both connected to main outputs 1/2 (Speakers -> XLR and sub -> RCA);
... all managed as described in an old post (https://forum.rme-audio.de/viewtopic.php?id=33455) and with the help of the Velodyne DSP.

Having a MiniDSP Flex "Analog Unbalanced version" (which I use on a second AV system with Marantz AVR... always to better integrate the 2 subs) I would like to try it for the optimization of the 2 subs on the "stereo" system where I listen with ADI-2 Pro.

The question is whether I can leave the main speakers connected to Main Outputs 1/2 and connect the MiniDSP Flex via the SPDIF or Toslink output of the RME... (to then manage the setup of the 2 subs with DSP filtering, REW and multisub optimiser app).

Thanks,

Marco

2 (edited by KaiS 2024-12-28 01:14:51)

Re: Same stream to Main Outputs + digital for sub integration

See manual page 43.

The option:
SETUP / Options / Device Mode/DSD / Dig. Out Source: Main out
lets the Digital out signal follow the output 1/2.


In general it‘s better to have the main speakers connected to the subs, otherwise bass management would not work as intended by the manufacturer.
Even the whole MiniDSP optimization wouldn’t have access to the main speakers, so would probably yield unexpected and sub-optimal results.

Re: Same stream to Main Outputs + digital for sub integration

The MiniDSP (many flavors) is often used specifically for sub integration using biquads / fir and such (well beyond what TMFX or the Velodyne has built-in) - it should not cause any issues assuming you can align the mains and sub correctly WRT latency.  The OP seems versed in its operation from their HT setup (the most common application for a MiniDSP is for HT sub integration).  cool

MADIface-XT+ARC / 3x HDSP MADI / ADI648
2x SSL Alphalink MADI AX
2x Multiface / 2x Digiface /2x ADI8

4 (edited by KaiS 2024-12-28 17:04:01)

Re: Same stream to Main Outputs + digital for sub integration

The main point with digital filter processing is the latency of the whole process.

If you run the subs only through such, their signal is delayed relative to the mains, the bass will lag behind the rest.

Low pass filter alone (digital or analog, no matter) already delays the bass.
This is not desirable, the result is no smooth transition between sub and mains, and a slow sounding bass.

Of course, something comes out, but where is the improvement?

Better to have all signals run through MiniDSP if it’s meant to do room correction and bass integration.

Re: Same stream to Main Outputs + digital for sub integration

First of all, thanks!

In fact, the latency (in this mode) was the main aspect that I feared...

The C1s are very linear by themselves and all in all they respond well in the environment... and I wanted to leave them to the ADI-2 Pro (which I am very satisfied with).

They are the subs that are most difficult to "tame"... for this reason I was thinking of an adventurous "hybrid" path.

I am also satisfied (as Randyman states) with the MiniDSP used to optimize the integration of the Subs in the HT field.

6 (edited by Randyman... 2024-12-29 07:45:38)

Re: Same stream to Main Outputs + digital for sub integration

Doesn't TMFX/RoomEQ also allow for delays to compensate for distances?  This can also be used for latency compensation. 

The MiniDSP (specifically the 2x4 and 2x4HD) are regularly and religiously used for multi sub optimization (MSO plugin) "Post AVR" using Sub outs - and then the AVR lines everything up via distance/delay settings to be in-phase and perfectly aligned.  I'm assuming TMFX can also do that (I'd hope so if a cheap AVR can).  This is very very common in Home Theater land where insanely powerful sub setups/arrays are used and expertly integrated together and with mains.  You don't have to use the crossover in the MiniDSP (but you can), but you will CERTAINLY use the biquad or FIR filters to integrate multiple subs together for a uniform response - each sub with specific filtering strategically applied.

MADIface-XT+ARC / 3x HDSP MADI / ADI648
2x SSL Alphalink MADI AX
2x Multiface / 2x Digiface /2x ADI8

7 (edited by unpluggged 2024-12-29 16:24:25)

Re: Same stream to Main Outputs + digital for sub integration

MC_R wrote:

First of all, thanks!

Did you choose this username on purpose to confuse people?

Fireface UCX II + ARC USB > ADI-2 Pro FS R BE > Neumann KH 750 DSP + MA 1 > KH 120 A

Re: Same stream to Main Outputs + digital for sub integration

they are the initials of my name... and the city where I live... if you don't like it I'll change…

Re: Same stream to Main Outputs + digital for sub integration

MC_R wrote:

they are the initials of my name... and the city where I live... if you don't like it I'll change…

It's not a question of my liking, I just think it's worth to advise you that it's much too similar to MC, that is the handle of Matthias Carstens, RME's founder and the admin of this forum, and "_R" is a very short suffix that can be interpreted as "RME". So it looks like a bad choice here; a person could mistake your posts for his.

Fireface UCX II + ARC USB > ADI-2 Pro FS R BE > Neumann KH 750 DSP + MA 1 > KH 120 A

Re: Same stream to Main Outputs + digital for sub integration

Happy new year everyone! wow, i dont want to emulate or confuse anyone! I ask the administrator to please delete my profile... i will make a different one.