Topic: newbie seeking help

Hi,

Owner of the ADI2-DAC since a while ago.  It is connected to the integrated via XLR and works great, have tried as well via RCA and the same, high level and quality.

Recently I did receive a headphones amplifier, Lehmann Linear II, actually this amplifier is plugged in to the integrated, Tape Rec, quality and volume sounds really good when using any of the hi-fi interfaces, CD player, turntable, etc.

What I'm a bit confused is that when the Lehmann is plugged in, via RCA, directly to the ADI-2, the volume decreases a lot, I have to raise the ADI volume a lot, almost to the maximum level.  And, in comparison when plugged in to the integrated or even directly through the ADI headphone jack, in this case the volume is a lot higher than when headphones plugged in to the Lehmann, which in my opinion doesn't make sense.

Am I doing something wrong?  Thanks in advance for any feedback.

2 (edited by ramses 2025-01-06 21:51:22)

Re: newbie seeking help

Please give a complete overview, how the devices are connected in the two described use cases.

Generally spoken, it makes no sense to connect different headphone amplifiers in series.
Usually, sound becomes worse, the more components are involved in the signal path.

And you can see already here, that you do not get it handled to keep the signal on a proper level.

For more clarity of what you are doing, please provide such a drawing to make it easier to understand.

Also note, whether a connection is analog or digital and what reference level is configured on analog inputs and outputs.

This statement makes absolutely no sense to me:

jorspet wrote:

What I'm a bit confused is that when the Lehmann is plugged in, via RCA, directly to the ADI-2, the volume decreases a lot [...]

I am confused because the Lehmann has no SPDIF output.
So if you talk about connecting the Lehmann to the ADI-2 DAC via RCA ... the ADI-2 DAC FS has no analog inputs with RCA plugs. This is a SPDIF (coax) digital input.

Awaiting a more clear description of the two setups that you talk about.

BR Ramses - UFX III, 12Mic, XTC, M-1620 Pro D, RayDAT, ADI-2 Pro FS R BE, X10SRi-F, E5-1680v4, Win10

Re: newbie seeking help

Ok, I will explain how do I connect both devices, headphones amplifier and the RME, quite simple.
Lehmann Linear II is fully analog, no digital connections, the RCA is connected from the amplifier directly into de analog RCA outputs in the RME, and as said, the volume has to be raised very high to be able to listen at a decent level.

But when I connect the headphones directly into the RME, without using the headphones amplifier, the volume is what it should be.

To add that I have the choice to raise the gain in my headphones amplifier, but doesn’t make sense because it works extremely well when connected to the integrated amplifier via Tape-Rec, but in this case I need to have the integrated ON, something that I want to avoid by connecting the headphones amplifier directly into the RME when using Qobuz via the streamer that is connected to the RME.

Thanks for your help

4 (edited by waedi 2025-01-07 08:12:37)

Re: newbie seeking help

Would be interesting to know how the tape-out of this amp is circuited, a block-diagramm would help...
What model integrated amp is this ?

M1-Sequoia, Madiface Pro, Digiface USB, Babyface silver and blue

Re: newbie seeking help

waedi wrote:

Would be interesting to know how the tape-out of this amp is circuited, a block-diagramm would help...
What model integrated amp is this ?

Accuphase E380

It works really well when listening with the headphones amplifier connected to the tape-rec.

In regards to the RME, I have managed to improve it a bit, by setting it as DAC only, and volume control through the headphones amplifier, but still surprising that the headphones are sounding much louder when connected directly to the RME instead if from the headphones amplifier.

Above knowing that the HD800s are highly recommended everywhere to plug them in through an external and dedicated amplifier.

Re: newbie seeking help

Oh what a great amp !
If you pull fully down the volume on the E380, is the headphone silent or still have the same volume via tape-out ?

M1-Sequoia, Madiface Pro, Digiface USB, Babyface silver and blue

Re: newbie seeking help

I switch the speakers knob to off, nevertheless with the tape-rec on, all knobs or amplifier functions are disabled, the same with the volume, and this is controlled by the external unit, in this case by the headphones amplifier or the RME

8 (edited by ramses 2025-01-07 10:04:34)

Re: newbie seeking help

To be honest, I still don't understand your setup, a drawing would provide a better overview.

I also have an Accuphase amplifier (E-600) and I have a clear concept.
A recording interface as the basis (UFX III) and then an ADI-2 Pro FS R BE for recording and the hi-fi corner.
Headphones are connected to one of the two ADI-2 Pro FS, in my case, always in the recording corner.

Audio transport is digital from source to destination and, above all, lossless, validated by bit test (ADI-2 DAC/Pro feature).
The D/A conversion always takes place on the ADI-2 Pro, unadulterated, and thus delivers optimum results.

Various reference levels and the Auto Ref level and dynamic loudness features also provide further good features to keep SNR as high as possible and prevent the “sound” from thinning out even when listening quietly. It's a well-rounded concept.

In my opinion, all this fiddling around trying to interpose something as a “sound enhancer” is unnecessary and runs the risk of degrading the sound.


PC (audio player, MusicBee with ASIO support)
| \
|  +--USB2---------------------------------------------------------------------------------+ ADI-2 remote SW
|                                                                                                                     | (remote control of ADI-2 Pro via USB)
| USB3                                                                                                            |
|                                                                                                                     |
UFX III---ADAT1 (Main Out)---------[SPDIF]-------------------------->ADAT IN---ADI-2 Pro FS R BE----1/2--->Geithain RL906
\   \                                                                                                                                  \------------3/4--->Audeze LCD-3 / AEON 2 CB
  \   \                                                                                                                                        (Monitoring Studio Corner)
   \   +-----ADAT2 IN<-----------------[SPDIF]-------------------ADAT OUT--+ (*)
    \                                                                                                       \
     +-------ADAT2 (Main Out B)------[SPDIF]------>Oehlbach------>ADAT IN---ADI-2 Pro FS R BE----1/2--->Accu E-600
                                                       BluRay------>Optosel 4:1                                          \                         /
                                                    OLED TV------>Mk II TOSLINK                                         +<----AN IN----+       
                                                     Reserve------>Switcher (**)                                (HiFi Corner or Speaker B for UFX III)

(*) Just in case I want to record sound from TV coming from E-600
(**) The TOSLINK switch supports up to 192 kHz. It even works with 15+1m TOSLINK cable. Can be controlled via Remote.
        By this TOSLINK switcher I have something like an ADI-2 Pro with 4x ADAT inputs.
        This way, I use the ADI-2 Pro as D/A converter for all digital devices in the HiFi corner.
        Additional benefit by using TOSLINK connections -> galvanic isolation (otherwise you get hum from Sat/TV).

BR Ramses - UFX III, 12Mic, XTC, M-1620 Pro D, RayDAT, ADI-2 Pro FS R BE, X10SRi-F, E5-1680v4, Win10

9 (edited by jorspet 2025-01-07 11:45:11)

Re: newbie seeking help

Your setup is very different from mine, is just for hifi equipment, no TV nor recording, etc.

As simple as that:
- headphones amplifier connected to the integrated, Tape-Rec, with the purpose to improve the quality of the headphones amplifier built in the integrated and to be able to listen to any other device, CD player, turntable, RME Dac and streamer.
- headphones amplifier connected as well to the RME, by means of an Audioquest RCA splitter, this allows me to use the streamer+RME without switching ON the integrated.
- purpose of the headphones amplifier is because I use a high impedance headphones, Sennheiser HD800s - 300 Ohms, with this headphones it is highly recommended everywhere to use a dedicated headphones amplifier in order to enhance the best out of this high quality headphones.  When in use is when I did realize that the volume level of the RME is much higher than the one of the external and dedicated headphones amplifier, something I was not expecting and that surprises me too.

As said before, I have managed to increase the headphones volume, when not using the integrated, thus connected to the RME only, by setting the RME as DAC only
Auto Ref Level: Off.
Ref Level: +7dBu
Volume to 0dB
Volume fixed: yes

-

10 (edited by waedi 2025-01-07 12:27:50)

Re: newbie seeking help

The tape-out of the E380 seems to be a straight forward of the input signal.
No improvement of the signal, the only reason to connect the E380 into the chain is to be able to switch the different inputs with the big knob on the front. Select CD or Aux or Phono etc. to play out on the tape-rec.
I would connect the headphone amp directly to the audio interface only and make all level settings to fit.

M1-Sequoia, Madiface Pro, Digiface USB, Babyface silver and blue

Re: newbie seeking help

It is at least to me still not 100% clear what is connected to what. Only in your last post you mention a RCA splitter. In a correct chain with correct impedances, these can work, but if incorrect or used incorrect the can cause severe issues, like volume drop. So please make you connections clear! Start with the source, the adi and explain from there. Which outs which cable etc.

Vincent, Amsterdam
https://soundcloud.com/thesecretworld
BFpro fs, 2X HDSP9652 ADI-8AE, 2X HDSP9632

12 (edited by ramses 2025-01-07 12:53:18)

Re: newbie seeking help

vinark wrote:

It is at least to me still not 100% clear what is connected to what. Only in your last post you mention a RCA splitter. In a correct chain with correct impedances, these can work, but if incorrect or used incorrect the can cause severe issues, like volume drop. So please make you connections clear! Start with the source, the adi and explain from there. Which outs which cable etc.

+1

I still do not understand it.

Example:

> Recently I did receive a headphones amplifier, Lehmann Linear II, actually this amplifier is plugged
> in to the integrated, Tape Rec,

What is "the integrated" / "Tape Rec" ... Where ? What ? At what position in the chain.
Maybe its easy for you as you build it up so you are and live in "your wording".

But as this is no typical studio setup.
We do not know your devices, their capabilties, we do not know how this all is physically connected to be able to follow you what the signal flow of "A" and "B" is, what you compare.

It would be kind (not to say necessary) to make a drawing so that the setup is understandable.
You know, "a picture tells more then thousand words" ;-) Thanks!

BR Ramses - UFX III, 12Mic, XTC, M-1620 Pro D, RayDAT, ADI-2 Pro FS R BE, X10SRi-F, E5-1680v4, Win10

Re: newbie seeking help

Finally, I have found how to fix it. It has nothing to do with the rca's, connections, system chain, etc.

Solution comes by setting the RME properly with the purpose of letting the headphones amplifier do it's job.
Set the RME at +13 ref level and -3dB volume level in DAC mode which gives 2.4 volts perfect for feeding the headphones amp.

It is important to establish the recommended input levels for the amp concerned, if that cannot be done then a level between 1.5 and 3 volts will work.

Keeping in mind the amp will perform best in terms of dynamic range and signal to noise when fed with the highest level it can take. Once set to the best levels the volume should be locked and the setting saved.

My doubts, questions, etc, have been solved by going through quite a few dedicated headphones forums, solution found in head-fi.org

I thank you all for trying your best to support.  Enjoy your day!

14 (edited by KaiS 2025-01-08 18:16:22)

Re: newbie seeking help

jorspet wrote:


- headphones amplifier connected as well to the RME, by means of an Audioquest RCA splitter, this allows me to use the streamer+RME without switching ON the integrated.-

Here’s the point:

You can’t just connect/combine two outputs, E380 RCA out AND ADI-2 RCA out into one input (Lehmann) through a splitter.
One output shorts the other, doesn’t work properly as you found out.


Either replug the RCA-cable as a one-to-one connection for each purpose,
or get a 2-way passive (no electronics) switchbox to add input switching capabilities for the Lehmann:

EXAMPLE PICTURES:
https://m.media-amazon.com/images/I/618ez344fcL._AC_SX679_.jpg

https://m.media-amazon.com/images/I/51Q+DJi-h1S._AC_SX679_.jpg

Re: newbie seeking help

Not really, I have tried with the RCA splitter and without, one single RCA directly connected to the RME, the outcome was exactly the same as with the splitter plugged in and with the double RCA's

Now it's working perfectly and with the splitter plugged in.  The thing is that I don't, never, use both connections simultaneously, just one at the time.

Re: newbie seeking help

What Kais ment is the connecting 2 devices to one output with a splitter might work, but connecting 2 devices to one input is a no go!

Vincent, Amsterdam
https://soundcloud.com/thesecretworld
BFpro fs, 2X HDSP9652 ADI-8AE, 2X HDSP9632