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Re: How I fixed my UFX III M1 Max stutters / dropouts / glitches

Firstly:
1) A FW to USB converter doesnt exist, it’s a FW to Thunderbolt adapter someone would use.

You are correct. Sorry, Maybe I wasn’t clear enough, as I didn’t want to dive in too deep.

I meant this combination (afaik, other people with fw interfaces use this with success): FW>TB Adapter and this hooked to a TB >USB Adapter.

Maggie, are you using an M1 with a usb interface? Have you had issues?

I use a MacStudio M1 Max 2022 running Sequoia. With a FF802 (via USB2) and UFXIII (via USB3) connected to it (at the same time). Both units directly connected (no hubs etc) to the USB-B Ports (USB3.2 afaik) on the mac. No issues with current DK or kexts. Tried both…

“Do It For Her”
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Re: How I fixed my UFX III M1 Max stutters / dropouts / glitches

maggie33 wrote:

TB >USB Adapter

No such thing can exist. TB controller is a DMA device; it cannot be attached via USB HCI.

Fireface UCX II + ARC USB > ADI-2 Pro FS R BE > Neumann KH 750 DSP + MA 1 > KH 120 A
  • From: Germany, Tuvalu, Poland, Chile
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Re: How I fixed my UFX III M1 Max stutters / dropouts / glitches

Don’t know how Apfel exactly connected his Ff 800 via FW to his imac.
Maybe you are right and he used TB at all.
But this is not the discussion here at all.

Fact is:
M1 USB Ports have no (general) USB problem with DK or kexts.

“Do It For Her”
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54 Reply by Apfel (edited by Apfel 2024-12-02 10:23:32)

  • Apfel
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Re: How I fixed my UFX III M1 Max stutters / dropouts / glitches

maggie33 wrote:

Don’t know how Apfel exactly connected his Ff 800 via FW to his imac.
Maybe you are right and he used TB at all.

Haven't thought about this in a long time. Had to look it up. Two adapters must be Firewire to Thunderbolt 2 > Thunderbolt 2 to Thunderbolt 3 (USB C).

iMac M1, Fireface 800, Logic Pro X
  • From: Germany, Tuvalu, Poland, Chile
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Re: How I fixed my UFX III M1 Max stutters / dropouts / glitches

thx for clarification, Apfel.

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56 Reply by ss

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Re: How I fixed my UFX III M1 Max stutters / dropouts / glitches

maggie33 wrote:

Firstly:
1) A FW to USB converter doesnt exist, it’s a FW to Thunderbolt adapter someone would use.

You are correct. Sorry, Maybe I wasn’t clear enough, as I didn’t want to dive in too deep.

I meant this combination (afaik, other people with fw interfaces use this with success): FW>TB Adapter and this hooked to a TB >USB Adapter.

Maggie, are you using an M1 with a usb interface? Have you had issues?

I use a MacStudio M1 Max 2022 running Sequoia. With a FF802 (via USB2) and UFXIII (via USB3) connected to it (at the same time). Both units directly connected (no hubs etc) to the USB-B Ports (USB3.2 afaik) on the mac. No issues with current DK or kexts. Tried both…

Well, all I can say is I'm jealous. I have no idea how to fix this, I've reinstalled the whole damn OS and the glitches remain, which lead me to believe it's something specific about my Macbook Pro, maybe the "M1 Pro SOC"? maybe the fact yours isnt a laptop? maybe yours has more ram?

I'm at the point where I'm about to buy a new Mac Mini M4, but if I still have issues it will go straight back to Apple.

  • From: uk
  • Registered: 2023-07-23
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Re: How I fixed my UFX III M1 Max stutters / dropouts / glitches

ss wrote:

The bus used is different even if the port is the same.

The bus is .. well.. the same. It's all connected to the M1 chip and I believe switches operational modes, sharing resources. Look up information on SMMU for more details.

ss wrote:

Sorry, I’m not convinced there isn’t a fundamental issue with M1 apple silicon.

I'm inclined to agree with you. Then again I believe there is a silent majority who have had no issues with their audio interfaces, they just never wrote in this forum.

ss wrote:

Why would I still get glitches, after a full clean install, with both types of drivers?

because of other variables such as your peripherals' topology, especially PCI-ish stuff like NVMe drives, hubs, external displays, which we haven't had any clear answers about in this forum. you're likely to find so many threads on this, just browse the forum.

Fireface UCX, Focusrite OctoPre, Sound Devices MixPre-D, Mac Studio M2 max, macOS Sonoma

58 Reply by maggie33 (edited by maggie33 2024-12-26 03:06:59)

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Re: How I fixed my UFX III M1 Max stutters / dropouts / glitches

Few days ago, I came across this article
https://eclecticlight.co/2022/04/18/m1- … 3-1-gen-2/

Which lead me to an idea - Maybe, the users, here having problems with UFX III (and probably other USB3 units) could verify this:

Check your in your System Information App on Mac:
- Your unit is connected and recognized as the one (and only!) inside a USBXHCI Controller
- Speed is marked as "5 GB/s"

See my example screenshot.
- Green Box:
   -> OK (at least in my case, as the UFX III is the one and only unit connected to the USBXHCI Controller).
- Red Box:
   -> OK for my FF802 (as it uses USB2) and the controller shares some other devices and hubs...
   -> If the UFX III would appear there it would be (probably) not be OK

Please, try to post as detailed as possible (best with screenshots).
Answers like: "Doesn't work" or "Tried. Still glitches" do not help at all.

https://i.ibb.co/d6G5RQr/usb3-busses.png

PS: This is just an idea - definitely no warranty or a solution at all...

“Do It For Her”
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  • Registered: 2024-11-18
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Re: How I fixed my UFX III M1 Max stutters / dropouts / glitches

Hey! Somehow I cant attach an image to you show my USB fireface configuration: I´ll leave a drive link so you guys can check it out! 
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1_bIBUp … sp=sharing

  • ramses
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Re: How I fixed my UFX III M1 Max stutters / dropouts / glitches

rapidmaker wrote:

Hey! Somehow I cant attach an image to you show my USB fireface configuration: I´ll leave a drive link so you guys can check it out! 
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1_bIBUp … sp=sharing

https://www.tonstudio-forum.de/blog/Ent … rum-EN-DE/

BR Ramses - UFX III, 12Mic, XTC, M-1620 Pro D, RayDAT, ADI-2 Pro FS R BE, X10SRi-F, E5-1680v4, Win10

61 Reply by MC

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Re: How I fixed my UFX III M1 Max stutters / dropouts / glitches

rapidmaker wrote:

Hey! Somehow I cant attach an image to you show my USB fireface configuration: I´ll leave a drive link so you guys can check it out! 
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1_bIBUp … sp=sharing

What is there to check out?

Regards
Matthias Carstens
RME

MC's Website

  • Registered: 2025-01-22
  • Posts: 1

Re: How I fixed my UFX III M1 Max stutters / dropouts / glitches

MC wrote:
rapidmaker wrote:

Hey! Somehow I cant attach an image to you show my USB fireface configuration: I´ll leave a drive link so you guys can check it out! 
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1_bIBUp … sp=sharing

What is there to check out?

Apple logo in left right corner - about this mac - more info (only button on the bottom) - scroll down to the bottom and click "System Report..." - Hardware - USB

63 Reply by turntabloid (edited by turntabloid 2025-01-26 16:47:24)

  • Registered: 2025-01-17
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Re: How I fixed my UFX III M1 Max stutters / dropouts / glitches

Hi, been lurking here for a while and would like to first thank everybody who contributes to help others!

I have dropouts on the following combination with minimal CPU and RAM load:

- Apple MacBook Pro M1 Pro (32 GB RAM)
- Sonoma 14.7.2
- RME Fireface UFX III (via the RME proprietory USB transfer mode; no matter which safety offset)
- Currently running on Kernel Extension Driver 3.33 (but, I tried the same with DriverKit Driver)

It does not matter which USB connection available in my setup, USB cable used, directly or connected via (iVanky) hub, the UFX III as single unit at controller or sharing the controller, it creates more or less frequent dropouts.

The only factor that makes a difference is my LG 32UL950-W display:

- Connected via TB4 (no matter which available pathway): Dropouts
- Not connected or turned off: No dropouts

If I remember correctly, there has been a similar report by another user on this or another forum.

I have absolutly no dropouts when I run the UFX III via 'Iso Transfer Mode' with the LG display connected. Again, no matter which USB connection used available in my setup, etc. (s. above).

Edit:
After posting this, I realized I should try to run the LG display via HDMI instead (as I am not interested in its internal hub anyways and as this could be the cause for interference). Oddly enough, it made it even worse (higher frequency of dropouts) with the LG display being connected only via HDMI.

64 Reply by rlgw3 (edited by rlgw3 2025-01-28 20:47:06)

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Re: How I fixed my UFX III M1 Max stutters / dropouts / glitches

Hello, I changed from Kernel 3.31 to DK 4.17 only because It's been on my list for a while now. I was confused (as many of us are) which one to choose when I bought the Fireface UFX III; only choosing the Kernel because It appeared was marginally better??? Thing were running fine except for occasional messages saying I should change to DK. So after reading all the posts here and the other thread (?id=37074 )I decided to fix what didn't need to be fixed really smile and as a result I was getting the glitch in the audio when recording. I even completely removed Rogue amoeba did all the SIPs and kmutil terminal cleanup.

Apple M3 Max (48gb) Sonoma 14.7.1 , OWC Thunderbolt dock, UFX III

I fired up a max patch with a soothing Shephard tone and recorded with the UFX directly connected using the 3.2 USB cable to my mac for 30 min.   - NO Glitch! NO interruptions!

Same test plugging in the UFX into the OWC dock then into my Mac.  Recorded 30+.  5 Glitches!

Retest both scenarios again. First directly connected, 20min -  NO Glitch.   Second, routing thru OWC, 20min 2 glitches.

Aren't mac not USB 3.2 compliant?  Read that somewhere.   Thunderbolt 4 yes.  Maybe I need to somehow convert to thunderbolt 4 if I want connect the UFX to my hub?   For now I'll just connect directly.

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Re: How I fixed my UFX III M1 Max stutters / dropouts / glitches

rlgw3 wrote:

Hello, I changed from Kernel 3.31 to DK 4.17

Better make sure to use the 4.18.

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Re: How I fixed my UFX III M1 Max stutters / dropouts / glitches

My bad, I had downloaded 4.17 a while ago and I picked it to install by accident.  I just upgraded DK4.17 to 4.18 and ran my tests again.  Hope this helps.

test 1
20 min test directly plugged into Mac. NO Glitches! - OK

test 2
shutdown mac, plugged in UFXIII to OWC. restarted
OK until ~9:00 - while messing with the max patch, audio to headphones stopped suddenly but Ableton still looked like it was recording a signal.  In fact, in Ableton, when i zoomed in, it was a series of rapid fire glitches but nothing was playing thru the headphones. Total Mix was not showing any levels on any channel. Ableton was showing incoming input levels.  Audio seized up and I had to force quit Total Mix.  I saw similar behavior where Ableton and Max froze when trying to delete the temp file after I was doing one of my previous tests on 4.17. I was almost as if the audio processing tread was still running.

test 3.
shutdown mac and UFXIII then restarted fresh 20min test. This time, not touching the the max patch; just let it run.
7:24 - Glitch!
8:24 - Glitch!

67 Reply by MC

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Re: How I fixed my UFX III M1 Max stutters / dropouts / glitches

Thanks for doing the tests and the detailed report. Please note we can't fix USB performance when the issue is outside of our hardware and drivers. In your case I expect the OWC dock is not at fault  (they have always been stellar performers for me), instead the issue lies with the M3 Max, its internal design, under the hood drivers and/or the current macOS. Apple might silently improve this at some point of time, but who knows...

BTW, USB 3.2 is not used here. Neither by Thunderbolt (Mac to Dock) nor the UFX III (USB 3.0 from Dock to UFX).

Regards
Matthias Carstens
RME

MC's Website

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Re: How I fixed my UFX III M1 Max stutters / dropouts / glitches

rlgw3 wrote:

test 3.
shutdown mac and UFXIII then restarted fresh 20min test.

Did you do test 3 with or without the OWC dock? If yes (with dock), connecting the UFXIII directly would be a preferred option.

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Re: How I fixed my UFX III M1 Max stutters / dropouts / glitches

MC,Ralf,  Which thread are you referring to about forcing USB3?  do you mean using ISO Transfer Mode as Turntabloid stated?  if so, I was curious bout that already and tried that too. 

Test 3 - UFX > OWC > Mac
shutdown mac and UFXIII then restarted fresh 20min test. This time, not touching the the max patch; just let it run.
7:24 - Glitch!
8:24 - Glitch!

Test 4 - UFX > OWC > Mac (turned on iso transfer mode in the USB Settings app)
7:09 - Glitch!
9:28 - Glitch!
10:39 - Glitch!

70 Reply by MC

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Re: How I fixed my UFX III M1 Max stutters / dropouts / glitches

So to summarize: connecting the UFX III directly to your M3 Max it works as expected, while having the OCW dock in the path causes clicks.

We will check the USB3 not detected issue when pre-setting that mode, maybe we can improve that.

Regards
Matthias Carstens
RME

MC's Website

71 Reply by rlgw3 (edited by rlgw3 2025-01-30 15:48:12)

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Re: How I fixed my UFX III M1 Max stutters / dropouts / glitches

Yes correct!  I have zero issues when the UFX III is plugged in directly to my mac via the LogiLink USB 3.2 (type C) cable. I think this cable came with the UFX III.

I will say that I've had some other similar type issues with this OWC hub(https://www.owc.com/solutions/thunderbolt-dock) where I had to bypass it and go directly into the computer.  My previous OWC hub(circa 2016) was great, never had an issue.

But I tend to think this is an Mac OS issue too.  Just the other day Apple release 14.7.3 which fixed a nasty permission issue with oneDrive. Seems like Apple has been sleeping recently.

Finally, I did run a test forcing USB3 mode using the hardware settings on the unit and it was the worse performance of all my tests.

Test 5
2:48 - glitch
3:12 - glitch
3:26 - partial dropout(like the signal dropped out but the reverb in the max patch was still echoing.)
3:36 - dropouts
3:52 - big drop
4:15 - partial

Anyway, hope others find plugging in directly to work as a temporary fix.

72 Reply by zinzin (edited by zinzin 2025-02-01 16:20:49)

  • Registered: 2014-03-07
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Re: How I fixed my UFX III M1 Max stutters / dropouts / glitches

oh boy, me too … i owned and used a FF400 for ~15 years. never a problem. last week i bought a brand new Fireface 802 FS. i didn‘t change my macbook pro m1 max 32gb RAM sonoma with logic pro x (latest version)

attached the FF 802 FS with its cable to my mbp. dowloaded the driver kit and did some recording the first day. everything fine

next day i did some mixing with outboard. totalmix did behave a bit strange.

next day i did further mixing. totalmix was working fine with hardware outboard gear used with my patchbay and the FF 802 FS. but playback started to stutter. heavily. i couldn‘t press play withouth stuttering and stutter loops. sometimes it lasted like 10 sec sometimes more. i had to wait some 30 sec before playback could be restarted. but it was a horrible workflow.

i searched online and came to various threads. so i installed the kernel driver, used a different cable into a usb hub and used a lower buffer size (256) and it got way better.

but today mixing again with an outboard compressor and during bouncing in realtime towards the end of the song there where some glitches making the bounce unusable …

so i spend 1700€ only to realize my 20 year old FF400 working better?!

and theres no solution? and its rme‘s or apples fault?!

i am for shure not waiting for too long for a solution. i will give the FF 802 FS back within the 30-day-period if it won‘t let me record and mix solidly as my olf FF …