• From: Melbourne, Australia
  • Registered: 2007-05-16
  • Posts: 495

Topic: For M-S affeciandos

The vector scope is a great tool, and would have been useful a few months ago when - in its absence - the M and S channels were transposed in a live mix.   Unfamiliar equipment and environment not under my full control was the reason (not excuse) ...

The Vectorscope/goniometer is a great tool to directly check correct operation - and orientation - of a stereo mic pair. However it is not easy to interpret the display if the input pair is in M-S format.   If the display had the ability to add a sum and difference matrix between the input selection and display, this would be a very useful feature for M-S users.   (Admittedly, a small but hopefully influential group in the RME community?)

An idea from personal experience.  As they said in Madison Avenue 50 years ago "let's run it up the flagpole and see who salutes!"

De gustibus - et sonus - non est disputandum

2 Reply by MC

  • MC
  • MC
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  • From: Germany/Thailand
  • Registered: 2007-04-06
  • Posts: 25,599

Re: For M-S affeciandos

Nice idea!

Regards
Matthias Carstens
RME

MC's Website

  • MH 3
  • AES/EBU artist
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  • From: Germany, Duisburg
  • Registered: 2007-05-02
  • Posts: 129

Re: For M-S affeciandos

Hello,

this would be a big step up, for an allready great tool.

Brilliant idea!

Regards

Marcus

FF UCX - ADI 8 QS(DOTec Madi/Usb i64) - Madi HDSPe(Tco 4) - Madiface USB
  • khmbp
  • AD/DA expert
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  • Registered: 2009-08-21
  • Posts: 34

Re: For M-S affeciandos

I agree, great idea!

  • From: Wien
  • Registered: 2007-05-01
  • Posts: 99

Re: For M-S affeciandos

I am sorry, but I dont see your problem.  MS display is just rotated by 45 degrees anticlockwise.

An MS matrix has the property of rotating by 45 degrees.

David

Classical ambisonic surround recording: UFX, FF400, Alesis HD24, Edirol R-44/88, Samplitude ProX 3.

david-p's Website

6 Reply by panatrope (edited by panatrope 2009-09-29 07:20:54)

  • From: Melbourne, Australia
  • Registered: 2007-05-16
  • Posts: 495

Re: For M-S affeciandos

We are all aware that in the goniometer using M-S shifts the 'centre' axis by - 45 degrees, but:

1. Current mounting arrangements do not permit me to turn my monitor 45 degrees clockwise;
2. Consistency is a wonderful virtue;
3. Some peoples' visual perception that centre is vertical is rather in-grained with age;
4. I'm well and truly over the stoic thing;
5. In a live broadcast situation, I prefer things to be simpler rather than complex.

I admire your adaptability, and if however, you prefer to preserve the current situation, then you are not obligated to engage the matrix (if it is implemented).

De gustibus - et sonus - non est disputandum

7 Reply by MC

  • MC
  • MC
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  • From: Germany/Thailand
  • Registered: 2007-04-06
  • Posts: 25,599

Re: For M-S affeciandos

You don't need to discuss this anymore, it is already implemented in the next DC Windows release (coming up in a few days). Works perfectly.

Regards
Matthias Carstens
RME

MC's Website

  • From: Melbourne, Australia
  • Registered: 2007-05-16
  • Posts: 495

Re: For M-S affeciandos

Vielen dank, MC!!

De gustibus - et sonus - non est disputandum
  • From: Melbourne, Australia
  • Registered: 2007-05-16
  • Posts: 495

Re: For M-S affeciandos

Thanks for the speedy implementation.

Only one minor comment - I think it would be useful to have some sort of 'flag' in the display that the M-S mode is active.   While it is fine for my personal use, the use of Digicheck in our multi-user DAW at the Recital Centre means that a previous user may unintentionally leave the Vector Audio Scope in M-S mode, and the following user may be confused by the unexpected correlation and vectors.

I realise that display changes may take more effort to implement, but it would be good to avoid any confusion that may arise where a display that appears exactly the same is capable of operating operating in two different modes.

Gruss




(BTW, how can you type the German 'ss' in messages in this forum with an English keyboard?)

De gustibus - et sonus - non est disputandum
  • From: Germany
  • Registered: 2007-04-10
  • Posts: 9,774

Re: For M-S affeciandos

panatrope wrote:

(BTW, how can you type the German 'ss' in messages in this forum with an English keyboard?)

ASCII 223, http://me.in-berlin.de/~pooh/ASCII_Tab.html cool


Regards,
Daniel Fuchs
RME

Regards
Daniel Fuchs
RME

RME Support's Website

11 Reply by Timur Born (edited by Timur 2009-10-09 11:44:57)

  • Registered: 2008-01-01
  • Posts: 3,025

Re: For M-S affeciandos

It's german "sz" or "sharp s" by the way, not ss, even when it kind of replaces a double s. wink

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/%C3%9F

Mac OS X
    Option+s on US and UK keyboards, Option+b on French keyboard

Microsoft Windows
    Alt+0223 or Alt+225 or (if not used otherwise) Ctrl+Alt+s, on some keyboards such as US-International also AltGr+s

X-based systems
    AltGr+s or Compose, s, s

GNU Emacs
    C-x 8 " s

GNOME
    Ctrl-Shift-DF or (in GNOME versions 2.15 and later) Ctrl-Shift-U, df

  • From: Melbourne, Australia
  • Registered: 2007-05-16
  • Posts: 495

Re: For M-S affeciandos

Thank you for your kind guidance.   Must spend some more time there soon to further improve my skills (the next AES in Berlin would be good).

Gru?

(You are old if you don't learn at least one new thing every day.)

De gustibus - et sonus - non est disputandum
  • From: Melbourne, Australia
  • Registered: 2007-05-16
  • Posts: 495

Re: For M-S affeciandos

... and to the original subject!

Used the M-S vectorscope operationally tonight for the first time.  A great asset to checking correct operation of the M-S main pair I was using.  Indispensable!

De gustibus - et sonus - non est disputandum