Topic: Fireface 800 giving me clicks and pops

Hi All, 

I'm running Win XP, Radeon X300 display
adapter, 1gig ram, Cubase SX3 with FF800.

I recently started getting a lot of clicks
especially during mixing and tracking. Could
This be a latency or memory problem.
I have recently updated my drivers for
FF800 and X300. My latency is running on
1024 samples all the time. How do I solve this
issue. Help!!

The Chef..

Re: Fireface 800 giving me clicks and pops

DUDE upgrade your Ram!!!!   

Standard is 2 Gig of ram so anything higher than that will work for ya. If that dosent work email me back and ill help ya out.

Re: Fireface 800 giving me clicks and pops

I've had noise problems @ 96 kHz since I bought it, although the noise has changed over the years. Now it's just pops/clicks using the 32 buffer - earlier it sounded a lot worse. Since I use 96 mainly to get low latency, the 32 buffer is important, but unfortunately - still not usable with 8 g RAM. 192 is sounding totally useless, but I don't need 192. Any hints  of what I can do to solve the 96 kHz noise problem? This is with Logic (any version), OS X (latest and earlier versions) and 5 different Intel Macs. I know people with the same setup using another interface at the same buffer/sample rate, so the problem doesn't seem be OSX, Logic or CoreAudio.

4

Re: Fireface 800 giving me clicks and pops

Completely unrelated post. What was that good for?

Regards
Matthias Carstens
RME

Re: Fireface 800 giving me clicks and pops

I've been trying through my dealer, through earlier posts on forums and through calling RME directly to solve a problem I have with pops and clicks in an RME product, so now I'm asking in an already existing thread about pops and clicks.

Re. "unrelated", I could have started a new thread about pops and clicks, but the relationship between pops and clicks on my own FF800 and the pops and clicks on another FF800 seems to be 'related'... no? You could say that I should have started my own thread, but I have already mentioned the problem in a thread I started - with no response. I use 96 kHz to get lower latency, so this issue is important to me, and I have tried all the options I can think of to find a solution. If there are solutions I haven't been thinking of, please enlighten me. Maybe someone in here knows for sure that my own FF800 pops and clicks are totally unrelated to this other person's FF800 pops and clicks, but I simply have no idea what my pops and clicks are related to - hence the question.

6

Re: Fireface 800 giving me clicks and pops

Your pops and clicks are related to simple logic. At 96 kHz a setting of 32 samples equals 16 samples in single speed - which won't work either. And as you have your own thread about it it was not necessary to hijack this one.

Regards
Matthias Carstens
RME

7 (edited by latency 2010-11-08 11:01:23)

Re: Fireface 800 giving me clicks and pops

Thanks for your reply. I placed a comment here because I got no response to the questions in the other thread, which originally was about latency and not noise anyway. Just move this post over to the thread about latency if you feel it's more suitable there.

Why do I have the same problems in iTunes - after having used 96 kHz in my DAW if the problem would be only Logic related?  And why doesn't people with other interfaces have the same problem - in the same version of Logic, and the same version of OS X, @ 96 kHz and the 32 buffer?  Maybe I have been misinformed if no DAW can do this - I just need the bare facts...

I don't know what 'single speed' means. When you say that 'it won't work', are you saying that one cannot use the FF800 with the 32 buffer without pops and clicks in 96 kHz? AFAIK '32' is the number of samples in one buffer, and there are two buffers + whatever else is needed to make this work. I don't have any technological insight about this - I just know that when low latencies are announced by various manufacturers, low buffer rates (usually 32) and high sample rates are usually used - to get the best latency results. I've been told - the five times I've called about this - that this should work - and also that if this would be a problem, others would have the same problem as well - and they don't.

If I would have been told that this isn't supposed to work when I first tried to solve the problem, I would have had to deal with this new info.

Your pops and clicks are related to simple logic.

Remember that most of us don't have the technical expertise you have. In my other thread I was told that "Firewire as such (i.e. as a data transfer protocol) does not introduce significant latency", but other sources say that one can get lower latencies with USB2 than with FW, and some even claim that one can get lower latencies with RMEs USB2 interfaces than one can with RMEs PCIe cards. It's all very confusing. :-)

But this isn't the end of the world - I just need to know what to expect.

8

Re: Fireface 800 giving me clicks and pops

> if the problem would be only Logic related?

'simple logic' means 'simple logic', not 'simple Logic'. :-)

Regards
Matthias Carstens
RME

Re: Fireface 800 giving me clicks and pops

smile Aha.

I still need answer to my question...
"At 96 kHz a setting of 32 samples equals 16 samples in single speed - which won't work either." If seems strange to me that 32 samples with the 96 kHz rate won't work  since other companies, for yeas now, has used that configuration to achieve the low roundtrip latency the advertise with. If that's not possible, I should have been going for a different solution in the first place - eg.  one with built-in effects, or a PCIe solution. No longer than a few days ago a rep from my dealer (but another one this time) said this simply should work, so I really need to know who's right and who's wrong here. No need to send the unit to repair if this won't work anyway...

Re: Fireface 800 giving me clicks and pops

If seems strange to me that 32 samples with the 96 kHz rate won't work  since other companies, for yeas now, has used that configuration to achieve the low roundtrip latency the advertise with.

Which companies achieve this for years?

best regards
Knut

11

Re: Fireface 800 giving me clicks and pops

There is no right and wrong. It always depends on your personal computer and the way you work. If at all I would agree that PCIe still has the edge over FW and USB, but that is a well-known fact. And I would also agree that for your quest of the lowest latency possible you might have bought the wrong interface type (FW). Comparisons to others are mostly flawed except you measure the real round-trip latency yourself.

Regards
Matthias Carstens
RME

Re: Fireface 800 giving me clicks and pops

Admin Knut wrote:

If seems strange to me that 32 samples with the 96 kHz rate won't work  since other companies, for yeas now, has used that configuration to achieve the low roundtrip latency the advertise with.

Which companies achieve this for years?

best regards
Knut

Apogee, for one.. they launched the Symphony card in 2007 and posted that it was usable with 96kHz + 32 buffer. That system also gets reduced latency due to the fact that it's using PCIe and not FireWire. However, since FW seems to add some latency PCIe doesn't, it's even more important to be able to use 96 kHz + 32 buffer on a FW based system.

MC wrote:

There is no right and wrong. It always depends on your personal computer and the way you work.

The Mac I use is a 8-core Mac, 2.8 gHz.


If at all I would agree that PCIe still has the edge over FW and USB, but that is a well-known fact.

Sure, and I don't expect a FW based system to offer the same latency as a PCIe based system since FW as such may introduce a millisecond, a half millisecond or whatever to the monitoring roundtrip. The question is if there's any way to make the FF800 work with a Mac at the 96 kHz/32 buffer setting at all. The local distributor recently suggested that I may have a faulty model, so the validity of the statement above ("At 96 kHz a setting of 32 samples equals 16 samples in single speed - which won't work"). If I need something else, that's somehow fine (except of course that the information I've got has been wrong - and that the dealer keeps *not* calling back about my issue in spite of a few promises about doing that, but that's another story which isn't relevant in this thread).

I just need to move on to something that works as expected. If FF800 can't handle this, but other FW or USB interfaces can, I need to look at other possible options, or move on to PCIe or ExpressCard solutions. If 96/32 won't even work on a UFX model and an 8-core Mac), I guess RME have no FW/USB options at all that can be used with my 8-core Mac and 32/96 (?).

Comparisons to others are mostly flawed except you measure the real round-trip latency yourself.

Sure, I've measured a number of interfaces - the problem right now is that we all know that higher sample rates give lower latencies, and that I get pops/clicks with the FF800 at 96 kHz and the 32 buffer. Going up to 64 sample buffers or 44.1 sample rate increases the latency up a level where the things sound a less lot tight. Higher sample rates than 96 are unusable with this buffer setting - but working @ 192  kHz isn't worth it anyway (IMO). I hope you understand that I don't feel a need to send the unit to repair for a week or so if the configuration I use simply isn't one I can expect to work.

And no, I can't 'hear' eg. 1 millisecond, it's just that lower latency provides a 'tighter' performance which is much more inspiring to work with.