1 Topic by Byt3 (edited by Byt3 2010-01-03 04:30:19)

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Topic: MME suport on windows 7 and HDSP 9632 channel mapping

[Split from an unrelated thread topic - Admin]


The channel routing is still ADAT 1+2 as the first pair ???
Man, Talk about zero progress ..
I thought by now someone in the development team would stand up & change this already so you can send 6 channel 2496 data to the card
& do your own downmixing & routing if you want through totalmix.

Not that I have any hope that anyone at RME will listen, but :

Chan pair should be Spdif, Analog,Then adats, so even if the ADAT ports are in SMUX mode, you can get a 6 channel 2496 file to AT LEAST PLAY, & 'compete' with any $0 integrated card on your MB,


hell Even today MME can be brought back as an option at least, so the whole WDM pain & interleaving Check Box game can be avoided by users who choose so,
and the channel routing changed to the above.
not to mention The MME drivers superior sound quality,speed & accuracy, as These Are Pro Audio products, & quality is the major concern for us.

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Re: MME suport on windows 7 and HDSP 9632 channel mapping

Whoa, wait a minute ... & Now I see The Firefaces psuedo MME was removed from the latest Drivers ???
Whoaa ... I give up. sad

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Re: MME suport on windows 7 and HDSP 9632 channel mapping

Byt3 wrote:

The channel routing is still ADAT 1+2 as the first pair?

Umm... No, certainly not. It's Analog, SPDIF, ADAT. Ever since 3.x was introduced.
Also, this has nothing to do with how 5.1 and 7.1 signals are routed. I am not entirely sure about the status here. The topic is not new and something was done at some point, will have to check.

Man, Talk about zero progress ..

:roll DeadHorse

I thought by now someone in the development team would stand up & change this already so you can send 6 channel 2496 data to the card

See above, nothing much to do with multichannel 24/96 playback, just with encoded 5.1 vs 7.1 material.

Even today MME can be brought back as an option at least,

MME is dead and gone and no longer supported in Win 7. Mind that this is technology from the days of Windows 3.

not to mention The MME drivers superior sound quality,speed & accuracy, as These Are Pro Audio products, & quality is the major concern for us.

MME drivers neither intrinsically "sound better" nor are they "faster" or "more accurate" than ASIO or even WDM (not considering possible side effects of SRC performed by Windows).

Regards
Daniel Fuchs
RME

Regards
Daniel Fuchs
RME

RME Support's Website

4 Reply by Byt3 (edited by Byt3 2013-03-12 21:16:10)

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Re: MME suport on windows 7 and HDSP 9632 channel mapping

RME Support wrote:
Byt3 wrote:

I thought by now someone in the development team would stand up & change this already so you can send 6 channel 2496 data to the card

See above, nothing much to do with multichannel 24/96 playback, just with encoded 5.1 vs 7.1 material.

I am talking about 2496 5.1 (note that I am not even suggesting 7.1 ... Ill even take working 5.1 ..)


RME Support wrote:
Byt3 wrote:

Even today MME can be brought back as an option at least,

MME is dead and gone and no longer supported in Win 7. Mind that this is technology from the days of Windows 3.

Is that so ? How confident are you about this info ?
My Flawless working Windows 7 with MME begs to disagree with your ruling : DeadHorse
You might wanna check your sources.
http://img229.imageshack.us/img229/7663/rmemmewindows72.jpg

:censored

RME Support wrote:
Byt3 wrote:

not to mention The MME drivers superior sound quality,speed & accuracy, as These Are Pro Audio products, & quality is the major concern for us.

MME drivers neither intrinsically "sound better" nor are they "faster" or "more accurate" than ASIO or even WDM (not considering possible side effects of SRC performed by Windows).

Regards
Daniel Fuchs
RME

I never said it sounds better than Asio.
The MME drivers are better than WDM, Latency can be controlled just Like Asio,
They Do Not suffer from any WDM SRC problems,
& They do not need constant switching between Interlaved & regular playback,

in Fact, They will automatically extend playback to the remaining available playback channels when presented with interlaved Multi Channel file audio,
as long as its 1648 Max.

Look Ma, "Unsupported" Auto Interleaved MME on Windows 7 ! OldSkool ! Bit-Accurate windows 3 Style ! lol



The Only Problem here is the same as I mentioned over & over again, for Many times before,was never fixed & was always ignored.
Because the channel mapping for the HDSP32 MME driver is flawed & starts with the Adat ports, when presented with anything above 1648, it will go into Smux mode & prevent playback.

Maybe in 2010, RME will finally consider FINALLY fixing it for the MME driver ? or the Hdsps go down in history as the most expensive audio card not to support 5.1 2496

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Re: MME suport on windows 7 and HDSP 9632 channel mapping

Byt3 wrote:

I am talking about 2496 5.1 (note that I am not even suggesting 7.1 ... Ill even take working 5.1 ..)

Unfortunately, you fail to understand that the issue you are referring to is entirely different from the original 5.1 vs. 7.1 channel assignment issue of the other thread.

Because the channel mapping for the HDSP32 MME driver is flawed & starts with the Adat ports, when presented with anything above 1648, it will go into Smux mode & prevent playback.

This channel mapping is not specific to the MME driver, it's the same for ASIO with the 2.94 driver.

Regards
Daniel Fuchs
RME

Regards
Daniel Fuchs
RME

RME Support's Website

6 Reply by Byt3 (edited by Byt3 2010-01-04 00:31:10)

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Re: MME suport on windows 7 and HDSP 9632 channel mapping

No worries .. I  fail to understand nothing.
I am a pro installer, I have been with RME from the start, way back when RME rightfully refused WDM, so you just might wanna give me just a tiny little bit more credit.
I used to build many systems with RME hardware, & still have many clients that use it.

These issues were reported over & over again, (even when XP was the only working Win OS, & it probably still is the most widespread) -
& frankly, I have lost all hope for anything to change, as again, even when being proven wrong, all I get from RME is arrogant comments / being ignored/ sidetracked, no surprises here, been here for a while.
I have posted this info because your post had inaccurate info, so other users know they can use the older drivers, if the need arises, & keep them from being misinformed.

RME doesn't wanna fix these years old issues ? Fine, but let's not ab/use the plain wrong, Win7 MME 'Dead' horse argument, as it is misleading information to say the least,
as it is quite alive as you can see, & this is certainly NOT the reason for these issues not to be fixed for years by RME for the Older driver & make it a viable option for the pros that bought it.

7 Reply by MC

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Re: MME suport on windows 7 and HDSP 9632 channel mapping

AFAIK MME does no longer exist in Windows 7 64 bit. But even in Win 7 32 bit I expect that it is dropped some day without pre-notification.

Regarding the channel order: it should be obvious that all users want the analog outputs to be channels 1/2. With a few(very seldom) exceptions, of course. Sorry for that.

Regards
Matthias Carstens
RME

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Re: MME suport on windows 7 and HDSP 9632 channel mapping

I'm afraid you are indeed confusing two issues here. The issue in the other thread was one of channel assignment, not channel mapping/order. Deathlord was referring to the way 5.1 signals are assigned in 7.1 speaker setups. As I said, I am a bit unsure about the current status in the HDSP driver. Will find out.

Your issue refers to the question whether ADAT or Analog channels come first. And you are referring to the 2.94 driver, which is almost 5 years old in principle (the current version is just adapted to work with new firmware also, but unchanged otherwise). Channel order was changed in 3.x.

MME drivers of a Digi 96 PST did not appear in the Windows Control Panel in my W7 32 RC1, AFAIR. Which software does the control panel in your screenshot belong to? Do the MME drivers appear in the Windows setup? Have you tried MME playback with WMP etc.?

Regards
Daniel Fuchs
RME

Regards
Daniel Fuchs
RME

RME Support's Website

9 Reply by Byt3 (edited by Byt3 2010-01-04 19:41:46)

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Re: MME suport on windows 7 and HDSP 9632 channel mapping

MC wrote:

Regarding the channel order: it should be obvious that all users want the analog outputs to be channels 1/2. With a few(very seldom) exceptions, of course. Sorry for that.

How is that is relevant  exactly ?
Spdif AN1+2 & then Adtas vs AN1+2 Spdif & then Adats makes no difference , as long as you can send interleaved 5.1/7.1 2496 data, without the above mentioned problems.


MC wrote:

AFAIK MME does no longer exist in Windows 7 64 bit. But even in Win 7 32 bit I expect that it is dropped some day without pre-notification.

Maybe .. maybe not .. why speculate ?

All I can report for now is windows 7 32 bit, have no experience with any 64 RME drivers & windows 7 64.
... What was dropped is media player's desire to use it, for many reasons, & not with the best intentions either ..SO, speculations aside ..
As you can clearly see MME was never dropped, so we can enjoy our RME hardware using it if/when RME decides so.


I would have tested 7 64 on RME hardware by now, but AFAIK the older RME driver was never ported to 64 bit even in XP64 days (correct me if I am wrong),
if one can be provided, & I will do all tests & reports,(I am a beta tester for another company, used to it).

RME Support wrote:

I'm afraid you are indeed confusing two issues here. The issue in the other thread was one of channel assignment, not channel mapping/order. Deathlord was referring to the way 5.1 signals are assigned in 7.1 speaker setups. As I said, I am a bit unsure about the current status in the HDSP driver. Will find out.

Your issue refers to the question whether ADAT or Analog channels come first. And you are referring to the 2.94 driver, which is almost 5 years old in principle (the current version is just adapted to work with new firmware also, but unchanged otherwise). Channel order was changed in 3.x.

MME drivers of a Digi 96 PST did not appear in the Windows Control Panel in my W7 32 RC1, AFAIR. Which software does the control panel in your screenshot belong to? Do the MME drivers appear in the Windows setup? Have you tried MME playback with WMP etc.?

Regards
Daniel Fuchs
RME

Daniel, as I said, YES, I AM aware these are different issues, no need to explain ... all of these issues have been haunting these drivers for ages anyway.
Talking about it in 2010 is just ... Surreal.

Now about your MME digi 96,
True MME playback on windows media player was not truly working by default (without workarounds) even in XP ... windows media player preferred the other methods.
The software above is none other then Sony's latest Sound Forge, just like any semi pro & up audio application out there.
I will quote a RME favorite when referring to MME .. "have you tried Wavelab?"

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Re: MME suport on windows 7 and HDSP 9632 channel mapping

Byt3 wrote:

Daniel, as I said, YES, I AM aware these are different issues, no need to explain ... all of these issues have been haunting these drivers for ages anyway.

Not in the least - the one issue concerning 5.1 vs. 7.1 channel assignment only surfaced last year and AFAIK was never reported in connection with the 2.x drivers.
The other issue (channel sequence) was fixed with the 3.x drivers.

Talking about it in 2010 is just ... Surreal.

With all due respect, talking about a driver which was discontinued nearly 5 years ago seems a tad surreal to me.

The software above is none other then Sony's latest Sound Forge, just like any semi pro & up audio application out there.

Quite possible some of these programs will still work with the MME drivers while WMP etc. won't - just like ASIO. WIll have to test the Digi96 with W7 32 again.


Regards
Daniel Fuchs
RME

Regards
Daniel Fuchs
RME

RME Support's Website

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Re: MME suport on windows 7 and HDSP 9632 channel mapping

RME Support wrote:

The other issue (channel sequence) was fixed with the 3.x drivers.

With all due respect, This is absurd.
The 3.x driver does not count as a fix as it disabled MME altogether, at a time when the 'MME is dead' had even less merit than it has now.


With all due respect, talking about a driver which was discontinued nearly 5 years ago seems a tad surreal to me.

That's right. You hit the nail right on the head, yet you don't feel the pain, but some of us do.

The driver was discontinued by RME 5 years ago, denying it's owners from functionality they paid their hard earned cash for, for no reason.
Again, With all due respect, you fail to understand that MME was not something RME gave for free as a bonus, it was one of the advertised products features.
People paid money for this functionality when they bought these cards. 5 years later, it is still broken. sorry, but from where I sit, Surreal is an understatement.

Imagine buying a car with a half broken engine, & 5 years later after never getting it fixed by the manufacturer, They say it is obsolete & force you to replace it with one you did not buy ..
would you still be a happy camper ?  Let's get real here.
No offense, but It is Only in this field these things can be done by companies without a price tag.

Now, RME is doing the same thing all over again with The Fireface, backing it up with incorrect information.
A Good company would act upon the info presented & make an effort to remedy the situation, not slug it out here after presented with the facts.
That's just plain sad.


Quite possible some of these programs will still work with the MME drivers while WMP etc. won't - just like ASIO. WIll have to test the Digi96 with W7 32 again.

Great ,I guess any app with WAVE support will be fine with the card, although I have not used a Digi96 for ages.

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Re: MME suport on windows 7 and HDSP 9632 channel mapping

Byt3 wrote:

With all due respect, This is absurd.
The 3.x driver does not count as a fix as it disabled MME altogether, at a time when the 'MME is dead' had even less merit than it has now.

Well, you might see it as a major change rather than a fix, which happened to coincide with the fact that MME (which dates back to 1991) was replaced with WDM.
There are a number of applications that will not work properly with MME at all, take for instance iTunes/Quicktime.

The decision was made at this point to drop MME, but the driver is still available and was even adapted to work with the latest firmware, making it possible to use it with cards from latest production without having to downgrade firmware.

The change in channel sequence is not even specifically related to MME/WDM at all, as it also affects ASIO operation.

The driver was discontinued by RME 5 years ago, denying it's owners from functionality they paid their hard earned cash for, for no reason.

See above, the driver neither ceased to operate (even with new cards) nor does the card lose functionality directly, IMHO... It can be used to full extent with both ASIO and WDM.
If MME is required, it is available. The problem you are reporting seems a very isolated issue to me. Without having tried it out, I would assume it would not be so much of an issue if the card was switched (or externally clocked) to 96k (reducing the number of channels) before initiating playback.

Again, With all due respect, you fail to understand that MME was not something RME gave for free as a bonus, it was one of the advertised products features.

Every product's features and specifications are subject to change without notice, not just ours... There is no "functionality" that is exclusive to MME, and unavailable with WDM. No features were lost, but compatibility with current Multimedia software products was improved, while ASIO performance for professional use (as the cards' main focus, if you will) was also improved even further. And we ensured compatibility of the 2.94 driver even with current firmware versions, extending the driver's lifespan practically indefinitely.. Nonetheless, sometimes discontinued (software) product versions or drivers will not inherit all the new features of the new version... Look at older versions of Cubase, Samplitude, Nuendo, Windows (remember ME?), etc., many of which will have a number of unfixed issues. Compared to that, the issue you have with 96k playback (and for which there may be a workaround) seems rather small to me, if I may utter a personal opinion here.

Imagine buying a car with a half broken engine, & 5 years later after never getting it fixed by the manufacturer, They say it is obsolete & force you to replace it with one you did not buy ..
would you still be a happy camper ?  Let's get real here.

The analogy doesn't work well at all, I'm afraid. To call the 2.x driver "half broken" is not what I would consider "getting real", sorry.

BTW, consider the HDSP 9652, where we did not change the channel order (or in fact did and changed it back based on customer feedback, because it made little sense to have the three ADAT blocks shifted because of the two SPDIFs). Would you consider this card (and the Raydat and MADI cards) to be "half broken", too?

Regards
Daniel Fuchs
RME

Regards
Daniel Fuchs
RME

RME Support's Website

13 Reply by Byt3 (edited by Byt3 2010-01-06 01:47:37)

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Re: MME suport on windows 7 and HDSP 9632 channel mapping

RME Support wrote:

Well, you might see it as a major change rather than a fix, which happened to coincide with the fact that MME (which dates back to 1991) was replaced with WDM.
There are a number of applications that will not work properly with MME at all, take for instance iTunes/Quicktime.

This argument has no beef. This could have been easily done by RME.
Even though iTunes/Quicktime are hardly these cards target audience, Alternative WDM support &/OR better directsound drivers, could have made Itunes/Quicktime happy.
Disabling MME functionality for All Professional & even semi pro applications that could use MME before, Killing development for it & forcing users to use an obsolete driver,
was not necessary to make that happen, was it.


Without having tried it out, I would assume it would not be so much of an issue if the card was switched (or externally clocked) to 96k (reducing the number of channels) before initiating playback.

Erm ... No.
This will not work ... RME can explain why.

BTW, consider the HDSP 9652, where we did not change the channel order (or in fact did and changed it back based on customer feedback, because it made little sense to have the three ADAT blocks shifted because of the two SPDIFs). Would you consider this card (and the Raydat and MADI cards) to be "half broken", too?

Well, I too have customers.
Many of them use RME hardware I either installed, serviced in their machines, or recommended in the past.
I used to report to RME bugs I discovered working with these customers,one you might recall is the XP Midi device limit,
That is how long I have been on this ship.
I am reporting issues that have been brought to me by clients, as complaints, & only RME can provide the solutions.

so I am your customer.
Everything I said here was said many times, by me & others, including  RME distributors.
How come You don't listen to me then ? By now I would assume you would find some sense in all I have said, not to mention proved.

No, I don't get the impression RME is listening, for a very long time, & trust me when I say these words are NOT coming from me alone.

Oh & This is certainly not an isolated incident with RME regarding MME on the Old driver.
If you to keep tabs on what's being said in the field you'd know that, but first thing's first.

How about RME Killing ZLM support for samplitude out of the blue ??
one day I get a call, suddenly my sold system is 'problematic', only to find out a driver has been updated, & RME pulled the plug on ZLM.
Why did I have to do the explaining ? What was that all about ?
Let's hear the reasoning behind that decision.

How about RME killng the MME on The Firefaces Now ? what's RME's reasoning now ?(or was that made to support iTunes as well ?)

By your reasoning you can just as easily decide you kill ASIO one day, for the advertised sold RME Hardware/Software packages, as WDM provides the same functionality ... .
Would you still attempt the same arguments ? ...   no ? .. why not !? ...  please ..


Finally, even your windows analogy works against everything you said.
If the Giant MICROSOFT's Windows 7 can support MME, a without competition market leader software only package with no commitments to any specific hardware device sold,
then RME MUST support it, as these products are Hardware / Software packages sold with tied advertised capabilities.

FACT IS, depending on the Clients NEEDS (Asio Only/Conversion Only/MME Only etc etc), RME's current policy results range from a devalued product to being a dis-functional product, 100% loss for the owner.

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Re: MME suport on windows 7 and HDSP 9632 channel mapping

Last comment here... I looked through earlier threads of yours, and a lot has been said and expleined already.

Byt3 wrote:

Disabling MME functionality for All Professional & even semi pro applications that could use MME before, Killing development for it & forcing users to use an obsolete driver,
was not necessary to make that happen, was it.

We did not disable MME functionality. That would be the case if the cirrent firmware no longer allowed the use of the 2.94 driver. What kind of "development" would you expect for a 20-year old standard?
Also, don't most or all of these pro audio apps also support ASIO? Is there a specific disadvantage to using ASIO?

How about RME Killing ZLM support for samplitude out of the blue??

Without wanting to open another can of worms here, I'm afraid I don't know what you are referring to.

By your reasoning you can just as easily decide you kill ASIO one day, for the advertised sold RME Hardware/Software packages, as WDM provides the same functionality ... .

Since this is quite obviously not the case, this comment is of little value, I'm afraid.

If the Giant MICROSOFT's Windows 7 can support MME

... half-heartedly at best. Apparently only in the 32 bit versions of Vista/7.

FACT IS, depending on the Clients NEEDS (Asio Only/Conversion Only/MME Only etc etc), RME's current policy results range from a devalued product to being a dis-functional product, 100% loss for the owner.

Simply not correct, since MME support is still available, if required. The 2.94 driver has not been totally discontinued, on the contrary. It's been adapted to new firmware, more than once, even.

As for the Fireface, in one of my posts in an earlier thread of yours, I mentioned that MME recording in Samplitude seemed to possibly result in out-of-sync channels. I had one such incident in a simple 3-track recording. None of that with ASIO. As you know best, this was not true MME to begin with.

Feel free to comment again, but after that, I would like to close the topic.

Regards
Daniel Fuchs
RME

Regards
Daniel Fuchs
RME

RME Support's Website

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Re: MME suport on windows 7 and HDSP 9632 channel mapping

RME Support wrote:

Feel free to comment again, but after that, I would like to close the topic.

I see.
In Closing the thread, do you mean totally closing the thread preventing others to leave comments ?
Please do not do so on my account, It is my final post in this thread.
as as I said I had no hopes for anything to change, but maybe other users would like to comment, & maybe it will help others.

You looked at older posts of mine .. good.
I am glad you saw I made the same bug reports & requests,earlier when one would assume they would have more weight, & these issues fixed.
mind you I am only bringing forward complaints & facts I received as well, in true belief that it will benefit both RME sales & its users.

on the FIREFACE's MME: I will be the first to say MME on the fireface leaves a lot to be desired, it is far from perfect,
but all I am saying is, leaving it up to the users whether to use it or not, would not prevent anyone from using asio.
I can tell you some clients found their uses for it & liked it, & disabling it for the firefaces is sure to disappoint some of them ... my 2 cents, (so I know I did all I can).
even the older HDSP MME driver could probably be updated  once even today to include both bug fixes, without constant development, just to keep it as an option,
Fine ... I said all I can say, & did all I can, it's in your hands now.

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Re: MME suport on windows 7 and HDSP 9632 channel mapping

Ok, if you prefer it, I will leave the thread open. This may in fact serve to show that the demand for MME is, let's say it like that, limited... The number of complaints about the lack of MME support in the 3.x drivers in my support mail inbox was near zero IIRC. I know you've quoted a number of clients, but on the whole, the demand is apparently not substantial.

Regards
Daniel Fuchs
RME

Regards
Daniel Fuchs
RME

RME Support's Website

17 Reply by Byt3 (edited by Byt3 2010-01-08 06:58:51)

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Re: MME suport on windows 7 and HDSP 9632 channel mapping

Thanks, (maybe the thread title could be changed to 'MME on windows 7' or similar to better describe the discussion.)
if you would like some ways to test it & some personal usage ideas how I used it in systems built for clients, please, feel free to contact me directly.

18 Reply by AH

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Re: MME suport on windows 7 and HDSP 9632 channel mapping

RME Support wrote:

Ok, if you prefer it, I will leave the thread open. This may in fact serve to show that the demand for MME is, let's say it like that, limited...

Hi Daniel and RME Team,

still a happy new year to everybody.

MME is still very important for applications which use multiple independent (stereo or even surround) channels. That's not possible with ASIO (at least not without extra application side programming, I know what I'm talking about, I took the effort).

ASIO is stoneage also, so if you point on MME being outdated, the same applies to ASIO (just think of the still missing possibility to submit a context pointer to distinguish separate instances and get it back in the callback). And if you follow the ASIO mailing list you immediately get the impression that ASIO is plain dead.

Why not expose all the interfaces the customers are asking for from within a single driver, sort of a layered driver model that can serve WDM, MME, ASIO, something else? I know that this is not the most easy way, but it is possible.

In practice, the problem with the old RME MME driver is that it doesn't come with a new inf file for the new PCIe cards. So perhaps it would be sort of a compromise to at least test it with the new cards and make a new package for the new cards.

And before you reply and say "No": In the past, was there a louder voice to blame WDM and hail MME than RME's?

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Re: MME suport on windows 7 and HDSP 9632 channel mapping

Hi,

ASIO is plain dead ???
WDM is not good enought and old MME is the only answer !!!
what works then what technology is needed and how to use it ?

sorry this tread is confusing me alot :-(

RME user for 10 years now with both PC and Mac
with Cubase, WaveLab etc Digi 96/8 PAD and Fireface 800 stills works fine here ...

regards S-EH

20 Reply by MC

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Re: MME suport on windows 7 and HDSP 9632 channel mapping

Axel,

while MME has clearly been dropped and will soon die completely, ASIO is (no matter how old) the de-facto standard in our business. And I don't see how and when this will change.

And the old MME driver has multiple times been updated with a new inf file to accept newer firmwares, I don't understand this point.

Regards
Matthias Carstens
RME

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21 Reply by AH

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Re: MME suport on windows 7 and HDSP 9632 channel mapping

MC wrote:

Axel,

while MME has clearly been dropped and will soon die completely

Hi Matthias,

it's clear that MS lost interest in MME, but as long as a great number of systems are running under XP x86 (might be the majority of systems to date), MME is still of much use on these systems. And how soon it dies depends on how soon there won't be no XP x86 systems in use anymore.

ASIO is (no matter how old) the de-facto standard in our business.

You're absolutely right, always referring to apps like Cubase, Sonar, Samplitude, etc, where you need one device with a lot of channels. But fair enough, this is 95% of RME's market, I guess.

And I don't see how and when this will change.

When I read the five posts of the last 6 months in the ASIO list and when I take a look at Steinberg's contributions to ASIO in the last couple of years, I'm not so confident to have a strong beleive in ASIO anymore. If you have more inside knowledge on what Steinberg's plans are, this might be the basis of your confidence. Don't wanna leak a little of this knowledge to us? :-)

And the old MME driver has multiple times been updated with a new inf file to accept newer firmwares, I don't understand this point.

Sorry, my fault, I didn't check this (and I thought I should do, lazy me). So if the new PCIe cards work out of the box with the MME driver without inf fiddling for me this is is a compromise I can fairly live with.

I didn't find any issues myself in 5.1 channel mapping (and if I would have, the most mixing consoles I have to deal with allow for channel remapping), but I can understand people asking for a fix, if the mapping isn't correct.

  • From: Germany
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Re: MME suport on windows 7 and HDSP 9632 channel mapping

AH wrote:

So if the new PCIe cards work out of the box with the MME driver without inf fiddling for me this is is a compromise I can fairly live with.

I'm afraid that is not the case. The driver will not support cards that were intorduced after it was discontinued. It does, however, support new firmware versions on the cards it has always supported (all HDSP PCI).


Regards
Daniel Fuchs
RME

Regards
Daniel Fuchs
RME

RME Support's Website

23 Reply by MC

  • MC
  • MC
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Re: MME suport on windows 7 and HDSP 9632 channel mapping

Aaah, I overlooked the 'new PCIe'. Of course the old driver can not work with new cards that internally operate completely different. That should be more than logical and is not an issue with the inf file alone.

Regards
Matthias Carstens
RME

MC's Website

  • Byt3
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Re: MME suport on windows 7 and HDSP 9632 channel mapping

Exactly.
MME cannot be used with these cards, I would expect doubling the sales if they would, as it would double it's target audience as well.
From what I can see, These days these cards appeal to both music/movie buffs  & professionals alike.

Currently the windows 7 wdm audio situation, with both the Firefaces & Hdsps, is a lot more problematic than it might seem, I failed to explain it .

as far as I can see, Windows 7 - Always resamples, even when presented with a sample rate it is set to.
Also, any multi channel device is detected & assigned as SPEAKERS, forcing the user to pick a sample rate, & locking the device to it.
Furthermore, designating it's speaker assignment as 5.1 would leave only remaining output channels usable etc etc.

(!)@Matthias, I was wondering, if the inf for Firefaces &  Hdsps can be modified to prevent being assigned as Speakers, & escaping these limitations by doing so.

Here's a work scenario I have been asked about too many times:
previously you could use your DAW's main recording application with Asio & when in the background,
use another player to preview loops sample etc to be imported, & all would play accurately with no problem.
With windows 7 & Non MME hardware such a simple work scenario, for all practical purposes, is impossible.

  • From: Gothenburg, Sweden
  • Registered: 2007-05-01
  • Posts: 441

Re: MME suport on windows 7 and HDSP 9632 channel mapping

Hi,

as far as I can see, Windows 7 - Always resamples, even when presented with a sample rate it is set to.

but not with ASIO right ?

regards S-EH

  • From: Germany
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  • Posts: 9,806

Re: MME suport on windows 7 and HDSP 9632 channel mapping

Byt3 wrote:

MME cannot be used with these cards, I would expect doubling the sales if they would, as it would double it's target audience as well.

Considering the number of requests for true MME support in my support mail inbox, I would have some serious doubts about that...

And again: If MME is required, our PCI cards are still available, and will be available for as long as there are PC mainboards with PCI slots...

Regards,
Daniel Fuchs
RME

Regards
Daniel Fuchs
RME

RME Support's Website

27 Reply by MC

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Re: MME suport on windows 7 and HDSP 9632 channel mapping

Byt3 wrote:

(!)@Matthias, I was wondering, if the inf for Firefaces &  Hdsps can be modified to prevent being assigned as Speakers, & escaping these limitations by doing so.

These are properties which are hardcoded within the driver.

Regards
Matthias Carstens
RME

MC's Website

28 Reply by Byt3 (edited by Byt3 2010-01-18 07:18:57)

  • Byt3
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Re: MME suport on windows 7 and HDSP 9632 channel mapping

MC wrote:
Byt3 wrote:

(!)@Matthias, I was wondering, if the inf for Firefaces &  Hdsps can be modified to prevent being assigned as Speakers, & escaping these limitations by doing so.

These are properties which are hardcoded within the driver.

@Matthias : This issue probably needs it's own thread, but I was wondering if further down the road the driver can have this install option/feature,
so the above problems can be prevented, & Windows 7 will not lock the RME devices ?

29 Reply by AH

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Re: MME suport on windows 7 and HDSP 9632 channel mapping

Hi Matthias,

I was off for a week, thus the late reply.

MC wrote:

Aaah, I overlooked the 'new PCIe'. Of course the old driver can not work with new cards that internally operate completely different. That should be more than logical and is not an issue with the inf file alone.

That's a pitty, because new systems, especially server platforms, don't come with (enough) PCI slots. So the MME users are tied to the "old" cards :-(

Cheers
Axel