• Registered: 2008-12-06
  • Posts: 198

Topic: USB Errors and Dropouts with Win 7 x64

Hello!

We installed Windows 7 x64 lately and everything first seemed to be fine - we didn't tweaked the system in any way, also driverwise there wasn't much needed (the audio hardware of course). But there are some elemental problems: The USB connection to the UC is not running correct - settings dialog shows a lot of errors and we also hear it. Low latencys are impossible. We didn't installed any Intel-chipset-driver - should we on Win 7? Also Aero and that nice looking stuff isn't shut off..
For XP we know the standard recommended tweakings for a good audio performance. Exist there a good source for the fresh Windows?

Any ideas?

El Duderino

  • Registered: 2008-01-01
  • Posts: 3,025

Re: USB Errors and Dropouts with Win 7 x64

What Intel chipset are you using? Did you check DPC Latencies yet?

  • Registered: 2008-12-06
  • Posts: 198

Re: USB Errors and Dropouts with Win 7 x64

Chipset is an P45 with ICH10(R?)
The DPC tool shows up the problem: There are big spikes. We installed now the Intel-Chipset-Driver and the ATI graphics driver - it's a HD3450. Nothing changed. Deactivating Aero and all that graphical mumbojambo didn't helped for the latencies but Waldorf Largo is now functioning - the GUI doesn't work right under Aero it seems.
There is an UAD2 card installed - should we look there for the problems?
Energysavingsettings are switched off - max performance.
The process monitor shows up svchost.exe closes or opens when the spikes appear.. but that give us no hint were to look at.
Any help appreciated.

Have a nice weekend starting
El Duderino.

  • Registered: 2008-01-01
  • Posts: 3,025

Re: USB Errors and Dropouts with Win 7 x64

Some things you need to try to narrow down the culprit:

1. Replace the ATI driver with the "Standard VGA Driver" and report back.

2. If 1 doesn't help then you need to try disabling unneeded (or seemingly needed) devices via Device-Manager and see if any of these produce the spikes. Things to look for are Wlan, Bluetooth, USB card readers (!), ACPI Battery, anything else connected to USB and onboard sound.

3. You can also try using "Process Explorer" (free download), which will enable you to see which services are hidden behind svhost processes. Double click on the svhost process in the list and look for a tab called "Services". I cannot explain more about how that program works here though. You can also use it to shut services down (or just use Windows' Services tool).

4. Last but not least (best to try this first): Check if a BIOS update exists for your board.

  • Registered: 2008-12-06
  • Posts: 198

Re: USB Errors and Dropouts with Win 7 x64

Timur wrote:

Some things you need to try to narrow down the culprit:

1. Replace the ATI driver with the "Standard VGA Driver" and report back.

2. If 1 doesn't help then you need to try disabling unneeded (or seemingly needed) devices via Device-Manager and see if any of these produce the spikes. Things to look for are Wlan, Bluetooth, USB card readers (!), ACPI Battery, anything else connected to USB and onboard sound.

This maschine doesn't have Bluetooth, USB card readers, Wlan or a battery - build only as a DAW. Onboard sound is disabled, also LAN. Doesn't helped.

Timur wrote:

3. You can also try using "Process Explorer" (free download), which will enable you to see which services are hidden behind svhost processes. Double click on the svhost process in the list and look for a tab called "Services". I cannot explain more about how that program works here though. You can also use it to shut services down (or just use Windows' Services tool).

Okay, I will try that.

Timur wrote:

4. Last but not least (best to try this first): Check if a BIOS update exists for your board.

Already done. There only updates for some new processors and memory. No bugfixes mentioned in the changelog. Also, the maschine worked for one year very well under Win XP x86  so I think it's a system/driver problem.

BTW: Citing in a forum is really shity. I loved the newsgroup..

  • Registered: 2008-01-01
  • Posts: 3,025

Re: USB Errors and Dropouts with Win 7 x64

Also don't forget to try the "Standard VGA driver". If this helps it points to problems with the graphic-card (driver).

  • Registered: 2008-12-06
  • Posts: 198

Re: USB Errors and Dropouts with Win 7 x64

Okay. We get it. But I am not sure what it really was.
I uninstalled with the "ATI (Un)Install Manager" the displaydrivers complete but that doesn't helped. Windows 7 loads the uninstalled drivers again from his own chache or something. So I uninstalled them 3 times. Also parallel I tried another Inputmode in the Edirol UM-2 MIDI-Interface for fun - can't believe it helped. So then the DPC tool showed no more errors and also the fireface settings dialog was fine. Really strange, especially because of the fact that Windows loaded the same display drivers again.
The process explorer couldn't reveal anything big. I wasn't able to shutdown some services and processes because they were protected. So the experimental way is only in old times possible :-)
In fact every time the GUI had something to do/draw the peaks appeared so it must be obviously the displaydriver. It's an HD 2xxx or so. The display settings were drilled to performance. No effects at all. Goddamn, this new systemsettings dialog is totally messed up. A little bit of XP mixed with something new but not consequent realised.

Another strange thing I wan't to mention wich is totally off topic: The "new" Synthesizer from our german friends Waldorf called Largo is not Windows 7 compatible. The GUI lags and the sound produces clicks sometimes in every cases - the cpu didn't had much to do..
really modern synthesizer ;-)

Good night
El Duderino

  • Registered: 2008-01-01
  • Posts: 3,025

Re: USB Errors and Dropouts with Win 7 x64

Are you sure Windows installed the same version of the same driver? It may have installed the ATI driver shipping with Windows 7. This is not the "Standard VGA driver" anyway, but if it works now then all is good.

Does the GUI of Largo lag with Aero, too?

  • Registered: 2008-12-06
  • Posts: 198

Re: USB Errors and Dropouts with Win 7 x64

Timur wrote:

Does the GUI of Largo lag with Aero, too?

Much more to be honest. Not only lagging but also disappearing for short times. You adjust the OSCs and the Interface showed the Waveforms changing a second later. But the disturbing sound is the real problem. You can't work with this thing. Aero seemed to be too fresh for all the musicsoftwarecompanies - even Cubase 5.1.1 don't make the same performant impression GUI-wise like under Win XP. MOTU BPM was also not functioning correct - GUI disappeared for some milliseconds.

  • Registered: 2008-01-01
  • Posts: 3,025

Re: USB Errors and Dropouts with Win 7 x64

Hm, I didn't have any GUI problems with any plugin whatsoever on Vista/Aero yet. Maybe it's the ATI card/driver that's not playing fair?

  • Registered: 2008-01-01
  • Posts: 3,025

Re: USB Errors and Dropouts with Win 7 x64

There is an article on german Tomshardware that describes how modern (even high end) graphic-cards fail to output old 2D (GDI) objects. It's both a problem of how Aero dropped hardware accelleration for old drawing routines while replacing them with new concepts and how drivers (especially ATI!) fail to deliver the kind of performance that would easily be possible.

Most likely that article (it's 2 to be exact) will be translated anytime soon.

http://www.tomshardware.com/de/wddm-2d- … 40487.html

  • Registered: 2008-12-06
  • Posts: 198

Re: USB Errors and Dropouts with Win 7 x64

Timur wrote:

Hm, I didn't have any GUI problems with any plugin whatsoever on Vista/Aero yet. Maybe it's the ATI card/driver that's not playing fair?

Maybe, but I think the company didn't mentioned anything about Win 7 on their website and we found some other people in the internet have similar problems. We will see what changes when the next update comes.

  • Registered: 2008-12-06
  • Posts: 198

Re: USB Errors and Dropouts with Win 7 x64

Timur wrote:

http://www.tomshardware.com/de/wddm-2d- … 40487.html

Thanks for the link! Interesting stuff.

BTW the maschine is now working fine - except of Largo. Did you know that Largo was the bad guy in the old James Bond with Sean Connery? Fireball...

Have a nice day.

  • Registered: 2008-01-01
  • Posts: 3,025

Re: USB Errors and Dropouts with Win 7 x64

Largo "LaGrande" also was the bully bad guy of Monkey Island 2! wink