• Registered: 2009-12-17
  • Posts: 6

Topic: Best Solution for Live Audio/ Midi Performance?

I'm wondering what the best RME PCIe solution would be for live performance using a MAC Pro 8Core as the CPU and Abelton Live for the software.

I would like to have up to 16 input channels of audio for micing up the group and also trigger live midi instruments.
I would need about 16 output channels for monitor mixes and main outputs. All the mixing, DSP and midi would be through the software so the lowest latency solution would be key.

Is it realistic to expect unnoticeable latency with a configuration like this?

2 Reply by Robert S. (edited by Robert S. 2009-12-18 22:29:13)

  • Registered: 2009-12-17
  • Posts: 6

Re: Best Solution for Live Audio/ Midi Performance?

There are three different configurations that I'm thinking about.

1. 1x Multiface II w/ PCIe, 1x OctiMic II, 1x OctiMic . Obviously the least expensive option but not sure if I can expand this system by doubling it and using a second PCIe slot or not. And I'm not sure how well this would clock together.

2. 2x ADI-8QS, 1x HDSPe AES, 2x OctiMic. This seems like it would be a good set up but expensive to expand past 16ch using the HDSPe AES

3. 2x ADI-8QS, 1x HDSPe MADI, 2x OctiMic. This is a more expensive setup but less costly to expand past 16 ch using HDSPe MADI

Lowest latency is the goal for both audio and midi using software monitoring.
I'm not sure how the midi speeds differ from on three options either.
Would these setups need an external clocking source or do the have their own?

  • luddy
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  • Registered: 2007-11-17
  • Posts: 19

Re: Best Solution for Live Audio/ Midi Performance?

Well, this isn't a very satisfactory answer to your question, but I run Ableton Live with an 8-core Mac Pro, using a RayDAT and 32 samples of latency.  It's quite nice.  That level of latency (a bit over 3ms) is quite negligible; it's on the order of what you get with a ProTools HD rig.  I have to think that lots of the RME PCIe products would get you into this neighborhood.

For what it's worth, there is much more of a CPU hit in Ableton using such a lower buffer depth than there is in Logic.  When I use Logic 9 with the same RayDAT and 32 samples of buffer, it doesn't seem to eat into the CPU at all, and I can load an astonishing number of tracks and plugs.  That's not the case with Live.  Dunno how much of that is just weirdness with recent versions of Live and Snow Leopard however...

-Luddy

  • Registered: 2008-01-01
  • Posts: 3,025

Re: Best Solution for Live Audio/ Midi Performance?

If you don't use any of Ableton's "specific" features, but only mix and playback ins and plugins then you may be better off using Logic at low buffer setting. But this is only relevant if you are going towards 55-65% total CPU load in Live (at 32 samples).

If your 8-core Mac handles everything at ease anyway it doesn't really matter and you should be able to get good low latency performance out of all RME PCI devices. I can get below 32 samples with a Fireface UC even, so it really depends on your load and DAW.

  • Registered: 2009-12-17
  • Posts: 6

Re: Best Solution for Live Audio/ Midi Performance?

luddy wrote:

Well, this isn't a very satisfactory answer to your question, but I run Ableton Live with an 8-core Mac Pro, using a RayDAT and 32 samples of latency.  It's quite nice.  That level of latency (a bit over 3ms) is quite negligible; it's on the order of what you get with a ProTools HD rig.  I have to think that lots of the RME PCIe products would get you into this neighborhood.

For what it's worth, there is much more of a CPU hit in Ableton using such a lower buffer depth than there is in Logic.  When I use Logic 9 with the same RayDAT and 32 samples of buffer, it doesn't seem to eat into the CPU at all, and I can load an astonishing number of tracks and plugs.  That's not the case with Live.  Dunno how much of that is just weirdness with recent versions of Live and Snow Leopard however...

-Luddy

Thanks for for the response, it's much appreciated.
I defiantly would like to stay with Ableton as software for this system because I plan on doing a lot of real time sound manipulation to the audio and Midi and it just seems to have the type of feature sets that I like to use experimental performances and production.

I think I'm leaning towards using two PCIe Multiface II with two OcatiMics for the preamps.

Hopefully by time I put the system together Abelton will have the CPU thing under control.

  • Registered: 2009-12-17
  • Posts: 6

Re: Best Solution for Live Audio/ Midi Performance?

Timur wrote:

If you don't use any of Ableton's "specific" features, but only mix and playback ins and plugins then you may be better off using Logic at low buffer setting. But this is only relevant if you are going towards 55-65% total CPU load in Live (at 32 samples).

If your 8-core Mac handles everything at ease anyway it doesn't really matter and you should be able to get good low latency performance out of all RME PCI devices. I can get below 32 samples with a Fireface UC even, so it really depends on your load and DAW.

Thanks for the info.
I don't actually have the MAC Pro yet but if we build this system that's what we're leaning towards.
I'm just trying to get a good feel for what I should get to achieve what I'm trying to do. I do plan on using Ableton because of the features that it has. I'm trying to find out if anyone is doing what I plan on doing and that would be to use Abelton like a  Pro Tools Live system but in a more experimental way with a lot of real time sound manipulation using midi controllers and midi instruments.

  • From: Sedona, AZ
  • Registered: 2010-02-11
  • Posts: 6

Re: Best Solution for Live Audio/ Midi Performance?

Hi Robert, how have things progressed? I'm looking to create a similar setup using ableton, though with a very fast PC laptop.

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