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Topic: New Mac driver for FF UC including error state detection

Hello,

as we now have a small number of users suffering from (typical Windows) USB performance problems on their Macs we have rewrritten the Mac driver to be even more robust.

This new driver should fix problems after overload, standby and similar, which caused constant distorted playback for some users and required to reset the driver. The change of the transfer mechanisms affects both driver and hardware. So your FF UC requires a new firmware, and both new driver and firmware are not backwards compatible. You can go back to the old driver and firmware, but you can not use only one of both.

If you have problems and want to try this driver proceed as follows:

Download driver and new firmware:

Updated 31.05.2010:

New driver 1.40 and firmware 104 have been released on the website.

----------------

Steps:

1. Update the FF UC firmware.

2. Update the driver.

3. Switch off the Mac and the UC.

4. Power-on the Mac and the UC.

5. Check firmware version 104 and driver version 1.40

6. Report your findings here.

Regards
Matthias Carstens
RME

MC's Website

2 Reply by titirom (edited by titirom 2010-03-18 10:39:00)

  • Registered: 2009-10-20
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Re: New Mac driver for FF UC including error state detection

Hi everybody,

First, thank you for this new driver and firmware to test.

My config: Macbook Pro unibody 2.8 may 2009 with 4gb Ram running 10.6.1 snow l?o clean install, latency 128 on logic 9 clean install,  fw 98 and driver 1.20.

After  the first hour's test, I can say that I'm very sad:  surely hours passed for rewrite the driver and for me nothing change :


Test small CPU charge, Buffer 128, in recording:

44000 Hz  rare clicks and pops ( every 5 10 minutes)
88200  Hz clicks and pops
96000  Hz seems no problem
176400  Hz full of clicks and pops
192000  Hz seems good


I continue testing  for listen if the big distortion (permanent or not come)

I'm coming again for more report soon.

  • Registered: 2009-10-20
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Re: New Mac driver for FF UC including error state detection

bad news:
After a test of  switch on the UC after the mac, the permanent distortion is coming back.

4 Reply by MC

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Re: New Mac driver for FF UC including error state detection

titrom,

the developer has the same notebook as you and it works perfectly. No distortion ever. The only time he had this was when he used a virtualisation software and it had altered the USB drivers.

Regards
Matthias Carstens
RME

MC's Website

5 Reply by titirom (edited by titirom 2010-03-16 22:34:30)

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Re: New Mac driver for FF UC including error state detection

Matthias,
This is a very important information !

Maybe I must envisage an hardware problem on my notebook but is your developer has not at all the 176.4 kHz problem reported by me and tested by some others guys ?

Also, i'm waiting for these others guys test reports on the new driver/firmware.

Of course, all my recent tests are only on mac os without virtualisation software or anything else.

6 Reply by MC

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Re: New Mac driver for FF UC including error state detection

Sure? Didn't I read about Parallels in a different thread? HeadScratch

Regards
Matthias Carstens
RME

MC's Website

7 Reply by titirom (edited by titirom 2010-03-19 10:50:17)

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Re: New Mac driver for FF UC including error state detection

Hi Matthias,

Because one of my first suspicions (with remarks  of Timur) was a parallel driver problem, I have also since the 15 January 2010 (i wrote it on my thread, post n 29) an external DD install with only snow leo (now 10.6.2), and rme driver up to date (now 1.20), for testing.

Part of post 29:

This morning, i installed a fresh snow leo in an external usb DD.
Just the minimum: RME 1.19 drivers and LineIn software (for testing audio entry, see above),nothing else.

8 Reply by MC

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Re: New Mac driver for FF UC including error state detection

External DD? Means what exactly and is connected how?

Regards
Matthias Carstens
RME

MC's Website

9 Reply by titirom (edited by titirom 2010-03-19 10:50:49)

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Re: New Mac driver for FF UC including error state detection

Matthias, sorry if I wasn't completely clear.

For complete testing I always try now two ways : internal DD of my macbook pro, parallel installed but not running, and a minimal installation of snow l?o on an external USB DD external powered, connected on an USB hub with also external power.
I'm just push the alt key to choose the external DD at the boot.

Of course, all my recent tests are only on mac os without virtualisation software or anything else.

I should said "without virtualisation software running " sorry again.

By the way, do you asked to the developer if he has try the 176.4 kHz frequency in recording ?

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Re: New Mac driver for FF UC including error state detection

I will do a test with a clean installation of Snow Leopard on an internal HD (without any virtualization software being installed).

  • Registered: 2010-02-26
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Re: New Mac driver for FF UC including error state detection

hi, i installed the new drivers and tomorrow i'll test them on my mackbook unibody.... i hope they solve the "clicks" problem.
goodnight
luca

12 Reply by MC

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Re: New Mac driver for FF UC including error state detection

titrom,
I think Timur meant the same as me but used the wrong words: you should not use the OS from an external hard drive via USB while testing an USB interface for problems. Red flag for me.

Regards
Matthias Carstens
RME

MC's Website

13 Reply by MC

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Re: New Mac driver for FF UC including error state detection

lucaflea,
from your posts it is not 100% clear if you have clicks in record or playback. We just found a real bug in all UC drivers that can cause a buffer problem which will add clicks to the recorded material. I will upload the fixed driver later directly to the website.

Regards
Matthias Carstens
RME

MC's Website

14 Reply by lucaflea (edited by lucaflea 2010-03-19 08:38:26)

  • Registered: 2010-02-26
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Re: New Mac driver for FF UC including error state detection

@ MC: i have clicks either during recording and playbacking...
ok, let us know when the new drivers are ready so that we can give you a feedback.
thanks for your precious job.

luca

ps: i use Leopard and not Snow leopard!

  • Registered: 2009-10-20
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Re: New Mac driver for FF UC including error state detection

hi guys,

Matthias, OK I understand your remark on external DD install (but for information, problems are the same on both system).
Do you think I must uninstall parallel, or not run it is sufficient ?

You find a bug in record mode but it's important that you also know that in play mode we have also some clicks(like said by Lucaflea), and the big randomly distortion (permanent or not) describe for exemple by ovorigin (cornelius thread post n 19)

I have sound problems also, every 10 or 20 min the audio play back level drops with a digital distortion over the top of it for a second or 2, not pleasant and I Imagine it being worse really loud over a PA during a live gig.

For me this problem is not so often but one or two time by day


For now I'm in a 15 days tour, so I can read and write in the forum but not test my UC

Timur,Lucaflea, salutations, I'm going to read carefully your future reports.

PS: Matthias I just see I've called you Daniel on some other posts , I corrected now, sorry fryingpan

  • Registered: 2010-03-10
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Re: New Mac driver for FF UC including error state detection

@titirom: If I got it right from what the RME ppl said, parallels modifies the OSX USB infrastructure. It's the installer that does so, so the moment you installed parallels, you USB subsystem might be permanently altered, which may be causing issues with the UC drivers. Simply not running parallels or even removing the parallels.app (or however it's called) won't change anything, the system altering took place at parallels install time.

The ideal test would be on a clean OSX install (without parallels ever being installed) on an internal (non-USB!) hard drive.

Regards,
Mike

Hardware:
- MacPro May 2007 / 2x DualCore Xeon / 6GB
- MacBook Pro June 2009 / Core2Duo @3GHz / 4GB

17 Reply by titirom (edited by titirom 2010-03-19 11:35:50)

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Re: New Mac driver for FF UC including error state detection

Netmickey,
Ok, this is a constructive remark. For now I'm going to wait a little for more reports because it's a big deal to reinstall all my computer and of course like I said just before because I'm in a tour without my UC  :-)

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Re: New Mac driver for FF UC including error state detection

parallels modifies the OSX USB infrastructure

It?s the same problem with VMWare Fusion. AppDelete can help.

best regards
Knut

19 Reply by titirom (edited by titirom 2010-03-19 12:06:55)

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Re: New Mac driver for FF UC including error state detection

Hi Knut,
I was thinking about restoration. Do you think reinstall with a time machine restoration will be good or AppDelete help is it sufficient ?

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Re: New Mac driver for FF UC including error state detection

Restoration is better. AppDelete does not help in every case. VMWare provides also an uninstaller. Maybe Parallels too.

best regards
Knut

21 Reply by netmikey (edited by netmikey 2010-03-19 13:43:44)

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Re: New Mac driver for FF UC including error state detection

Fact is, we just don't know what the virtualization software did, neither do we know what a system restore or AppRemover exactly do.
The resulting problem is: If the restauration/uninstall helps, it's OK, we found the cause. However, if it doesn't help, we still can't exclude virtualization software, we'd still need a clean install to be 100% sure wink

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Re: New Mac driver for FF UC including error state detection

netmickey,
Thank you for this precision.

I add that a friend of me told that a time machine total restoration (boot the mac with the snow leo DVD disc and choose make a time machine restoration) seems to be not sufficient, because of some system files replaced (must be more verified).

  • Registered: 2010-02-26
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Re: New Mac driver for FF UC including error state detection

hi.
yesterday i did some important recordings and my FF UC keeps on givin' me clicks...

44.100, buffer 128: random clicks
48, buffer 128: random clicks, not so often

i used appdelete to erase Parallels but it seems not workin'.
what do i have to do now?
next week i'm recording a full band and i don't know how to solve the problem.

would it be useful if i post some audio so that admins/developers listen to the problems?
thanks
luca

24 Reply by titirom (edited by titirom 2010-03-22 12:27:02)

  • Registered: 2009-10-20
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Re: New Mac driver for FF UC including error state detection

Lucaflea,
I've not my UC with me for the moment  so I can't do it myself and I know it's a big deal but maybe the only way to really know if it's not a parallel driver bad interaction is to completely reinstall Mac OS :roll

however, Matthias said they found a real bug, maybe we must wait a little for the corrected drivers before rushing in the reinstall's big deal.
(I hope you have an alternative solution for your record next week).

  • Registered: 2010-02-26
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Re: New Mac driver for FF UC including error state detection

ok... i'll wait one week...
i hope my seller can give me back my m-audio just for that occasion...
what a pity...

26 Reply by MC

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Re: New Mac driver for FF UC including error state detection

The 'corrected' drivers 1.21 are already on our Website. But they are based on the old 1.20. I am waiting for a new test driver having this fix too.

Regards
Matthias Carstens
RME

MC's Website

27 Reply by MC

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Re: New Mac driver for FF UC including error state detection

Here it is:

https://archiv.rme-audio.de/download/fut_usb_mac102.zip

https://archiv.rme-audio.de/download/dr … mac130.zip

This new set includes the 1.21 record fix, the new improved data reliability, and a new fix: sending MIDI sysex data had not been reliable at higher speeds.

Regards
Matthias Carstens
RME

MC's Website

28 Reply by titirom (edited by titirom 2010-03-23 21:09:40)

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Re: New Mac driver for FF UC including error state detection

Arg... I can't test it for the moment sad
But I'm staying in tune for other user's reports.

  • Registered: 2010-03-23
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Re: New Mac driver for FF UC including error state detection

I'm new here, have a UC, and have been experiencing complete distortion, not after sleep, but after hot plugging/unplugging. If I unplug the UC from my Macbook Pro (13'' 2.53, Mid-2009, Snow Leo), I can 100% guarantee that I will have to restart to fix the distortion, or to simply be able to select the UC as an output/input device, when I plug it back in. I have not at all experienced cracks/clicks while recording though. I've downloaded the new drivers and firmware two posts above, and I still get that same thing after unplugging and plugging it back in, except now it's consistently the situation where I just can't select it as an output device, so I don't even know if it's distorting. It's in the device list, but I can't select it. If it helps any, I also have an Audio Kontrol 1 by NI, and it does the exact same thing. I did not experience these issues using 10.5.8 with the Audio Kontrol. I did not yet have a UC then though, so I cannot comment on if it worked with 10.5.8. Snow Leopard has affected the Audio Kontrol from day 1.

  • Registered: 2010-03-10
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Re: New Mac driver for FF UC including error state detection

Any test reports yet? I'm craving for testing a UC on my macs... MC, have you received my eMail I sent via the forum?

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Re: New Mac driver for FF UC including error state detection

I will do some test tomorrow. But since the problem is of rather sporadic nature (the distortion) it's not easy to test against it. Dropouts are easier to check.

32 Reply by C+ODA (edited by C+ODA 2010-03-24 07:44:27)

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Re: New Mac driver for FF UC including error state detection

I can pretty much confirm everything that asknone9 has said. I too am using Snow Leopard and I am unable to select the Fireface UC as an output device upon a) coming out of sleep mode, and b) hot unplugging and plugging the UC back in. I am a new user and received my UC approximately 1 week ago, and have had problems with it since I plugged it in. It's disappointing to say the least. There are crackles and pops when I am using my DAW, even with a 300 sample buffer size. Other times there is complete distortion should my CPU rate go over, say, 60%.

I hope RME get their act together soon. The potential for the UC is immense. It sounds great, but it's not backed up by the correct and functioning drivers on the the Mac. I have downloaded the updated drivers posted in this thread, and there has been no change on my Snow Leopard OS machine.

33 Reply by titirom (edited by titirom 2010-03-24 10:29:57)

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Re: New Mac driver for FF UC including error state detection

Hi everybody,
asknone, C+ODA , because it's one of suspected reason , can you say if you using the software parallels (or any virtualization software) in your configurations please ?

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Re: New Mac driver for FF UC including error state detection

Hi titirom. No I don't have Paralells installed. I used to. But I uninstalled it long before I bought the UC. In all seriousness, this should not effect a ($1500) audio interface, and the drivers, firmware and hardware should all be stable enough to be able to run in parallel with such software. RME are internationally renowned for their high quality gear. I don't see why this should inhibit one from using these two phenomena in parallel.

I have a Macbook Pro 2.33 ghz, with Snow Leopard installed. If I put the MBP to sleep or unplug then replug the UC I cannot use the Fireface unless I reboot the MBP. That is unacceptable. In anyone's language. My (badly designed) MBox 2 Pro had no problems waking from sleep and hot plugging. RME in my book has it all over Digidesign. Please fix this up. Thank you.

35 Reply by titirom (edited by titirom 2010-03-24 13:08:02)

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Re: New Mac driver for FF UC including error state detection

C+ODA,
well, interesting remark but the interaction in virtualized software seems to be complex, it's maybe not a RME driver problem only but also a virtualized software driver's problem  and maybe also, a not clean parallels desinstall problem.

Of course,I understand and agree with, it would be better if virtualization's software works with UC.

We must envisage all the possibility also because we are not so many here to have these problems.

On other hand if another interface work without problems with parallels maybe it's because of the very hight performance latency of the UC and it's more sensitive.
or maybe not ... :-)

36 Reply by asknone9 (edited by asknone9 2010-03-24 19:37:39)

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Re: New Mac driver for FF UC including error state detection

No virtualization software here either. I've been playing with the unit a little more, and I would like to add that I experienced two splt-second dropouts while running Guitar Rig 4 (not recording, 44.1, 128 buffer) through some monitors connected to the UC. It may or may not be significant, simply because I played over the course of 3 hours, but I have yet to hear any dropouts when using Guitar Rig until now.

Thanks for working so hard at this, RME. I have yet to see this kind of involvement from any company.

  • Registered: 2009-07-13
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Re: New Mac driver for FF UC including error state detection

Althought I posted here on an another thread some time ago  that everything was running smooth and it did for a long time, I'm experiencing since 3 weeks distortion coming suddenly on all outputs (not after sleep mode or breaking connections); the only way is to reboot to get rid of it.It comes really at random and not every day.....
I don't record , I use my MBP (may 2009) as a VI host with NI Kore feeding my Protools rig.I never installed paralells or anything like that and didn't install any new software recently, so it's really weird.
I'm going to try the lastest drivers  and report the result.

  • Registered: 2009-10-20
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Re: New Mac driver for FF UC including error state detection

Hi guys,
With the last two post's report, it seems that parallels is maybe not in cause after all...

  • Registered: 2010-01-25
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Re: New Mac driver for FF UC including error state detection

If I can offer a suggestion to the RME technical team, don't know if this is possible but I would get in touch with the Native Instruments tech guys if you can. They were having the same issue with their Audio8 and Audio4 interfaces after Snow Leopard came out, but they've apparently been able to fix the issue in a recent driver (unfortunately I couldn't get to test it anymore as I had sold my Audio8 before they finally fixed it).

Maybe they can offer some insight in what the technical cause of the issue really is and how to fix it in the drivers.

Just my 2 cents

  • Registered: 2009-10-20
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Re: New Mac driver for FF UC including error state detection

Hi everybody,

I don't think it's only problem with snow leo , some guys tests, in the different posts about our problems, have (or had)  leopard and I was on leopard at the beginning with also problems.

It seems Native Instruments had similar symptoms really related to snow leo but it seems it's not the case with our problems.

  • Registered: 2009-07-13
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Re: New Mac driver for FF UC including error state detection

titirom wrote:

Hi everybody,

I don't think it's only problem with snow leo , some guys tests, in the different posts about our problems, have (or had)  leopard and I was on leopard at the beginning with also problems.

For your information I'm still in  10.5.8 right now

  • Registered: 2009-10-20
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Re: New Mac driver for FF UC including error state detection

Hi guys,
GrooveNinja, Ovorigin ,Inetics ,Corneliusw , are you still here ? do you tried the last drivers ? do you already sold your UC ?

Nice Sunday to everybody.

43 Reply by asknone9 (edited by asknone9 2010-03-29 19:32:11)

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Re: New Mac driver for FF UC including error state detection

I think it will be interesting/necessary to see how the UC responds to 10.6.3, now that it's out.


Follow up: 10.6.3 Didn't change a thing, as far as the most recent drivers on this thread are concerned.

  • Registered: 2009-07-13
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Re: New Mac driver for FF UC including error state detection

Hi,
New drivers installed (OS 10.5.8) and after 4 days working great quite all day, had the distortion thing happening suddenly while editing in Protools and doing nothing on my MBP (host for VI) except sending  midi tracks to it..........
That's really weird.

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Re: New Mac driver for FF UC including error state detection

Hi titirom,

sorry for late reply - had to much work to do (and therefore not sold my UC;)...still have not tested the new drivers, but my expectations are not too high, as far as because of work i cannot build up a complete new system (even without any virtualization software) - so i will try drivers this weekend with 10.6.3 and post my results.   

Cheers

// MBP 15" late 2008, 4GB, SLeo 10.6.4 , FFUC FW v111, Driver v1.40//

46 Reply by titirom (edited by titirom 2010-03-30 15:56:15)

  • Registered: 2009-10-20
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Re: New Mac driver for FF UC including error state detection

To Inetics,

No problem, of course I understand that people have a life before the UC :-)

In fact my post was a friendly post for all people who wrote on my problem thread  or in the corneliusw thread.

Cheers

  • Registered: 2010-02-26
  • Posts: 17

Re: New Mac driver for FF UC including error state detection

hi. i tested today the drivers...
they seem to work (at 44100...). no clicks or distortion encountered...

the only issue: itunes doesn't work... it doesn't play songs when the UC is turned on :-(

i'm installing the new release of itunes and then i'm goin' to reboot the macbook,
hopin' that it works...
thanks
luca

48 Reply by brainworks (edited by brainworks 2010-04-04 11:15:29)

  • Registered: 2010-04-04
  • Posts: 12

Re: New Mac driver for FF UC including error state detection

I am on MBP Sep 09 10.5.8

the new drivers/firmware didnt change a damn thing.
still experiencing fucking distorion when pluging-out and back-in. and impossible to get the playback out of the FFUC at times....

really don't want to deal with that kind of crap.... the mbox mini works even better at the moment....
disappointed....

Nicolas Toussaint - http://brainworksstudios.com - http://www.facebook.com/brainworksstudios
  • Registered: 2010-04-04
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Re: New Mac driver for FF UC including error state detection

hi,
new ffuc user and same problem here.

everything ok after killing coreaudio process at "activity monitor".

50 Reply by titirom (edited by titirom 2010-04-05 14:31:46)

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  • Posts: 105

Re: New Mac driver for FF UC including error state detection

Hi everybody,

Ok I've just try the last driver/firmware.

To be more precise on the action of this drivers, my tests were on snow leo 10.6.2 before updating with 10.6.3 and I must add that I still have parallels but not running.

After a first 40 minutes test,I can say the things are working much better:
- On Logic, all the frequencies seems to work properly (maybe only a small pop in 20 minutes at 44,1 kHz, I need to test more)
- Now with high charge CPU, all the frequencies seems to work well too.
- No problem with the wake up from sleep and it seems the hot plug work too.
- Also no problems with itunes.
But I had a very short small distortion on 176,4 kHz.

Well, time now to update with 10.6.3 and work with usual frequencies only.
RME team, thank you very much for working on our problems and I report more as soon as possible.

Jomadeba,
Do you speak about "coreaudiod" process ?