1 (edited by CDan 2010-07-07 16:04:55)

Topic: Driver 3.x and multiple units

On this thread http://www.rme-audio.de/forum/viewtopic.php?id=7671 Matthias said that there are issues with the new drivers (3.x) and using mulitple units.  Has that been resolved?  I was just going to switch over and then read this info and now don't know whether to do it or not.  I have a major location recording coming up and use at least two units at a time, sometime all three.
Anyone know?

2 (edited by CDan 2010-07-14 19:20:44)

Re: Driver 3.x and multiple units

Not sure why no one from RME has responded to the question about whether or not the issue Matthias mentioned about multiple Firefaces with the 3.xx drivers has been fixed yet, but because my location recording is tomorrow I changed the drivers and tried it.  No luck.  I was only using two of my three firefaces and it did not even see the second one.  Up until now I have had no more problems with my Windows 7 x64 installation than I did with XP except the firewire dropping out issue that microsoft has a hotfix for.  I installed the hotfix and it appears to be fine.  But with the new driver 3.016 it would only see one FF and it didn't matter which one I had on.  I reversed the driver to the previous one, used the legacy Windows Firewire drivers, and it appears to be back to stable, although I am running it all afternoon to test it.  Please keep us informed as to whether some of these issue have been corrected or at least keep your Driver Readme files up to date so that we can see what has been corrected in each release so we know when to change! Even the readme file that comes with 3.016 is really for 2.9992. ????
I guess that may all be because it is only a release candidate but it would be still nice to know when these issues get corrected in each release.

Re: Driver 3.x and multiple units

Hi CDan,

I use 2 FF800 units, 64-bit W7 and Cakewalk Sonar Producer Edition 8.5.3. Windows recognizes both units correctly but there are some other more or less reproducible issues in my setu. With one unit only system seems to be very stable but when second unit is in use then many kind of troubles may exist: recorded tracks are off sync (this MAY be Sonar problem but who knows), Sonar hangs sometimes (say one playback start out of 50) when trying to start playback and rude sounding audio glitches. Same problems exist in 3.016.

I can't use legacy driver because it does not recognize the second unit.

sonarmods.com

Re: Driver 3.x and multiple units

Are you using separate Firewire 800 connections for both units?  I have tried multiple units with two on Firewire 800 and one on Firewire 400 because that is the way a lot of the cards come but it doesn't always work right.  Even when I have the units on separate busses so there is lots of bandwidth.  Once you go past a single unit I have found you have to use Firewire 800 or they go out of sync.  Just a thought.

Re: Driver 3.x and multiple units

CDan > Even the readme file that comes with 3.016 is really for 2.9992. ????

u mean this ?


RME  Intelligent Audio Solutions

Fireface 400/800

Driver for Windows XP/Vista/7 32/64 Bit

Important information: Driver version 3.016

General news, changes and fixes


------------------

V 3.016 (06/30/2010, current firmware: 2.77 / 1.70)

- the FF 800 did not show all I/Os under WDM

- using multiple FFs the latency and sample rate setting was not synchronized in the Settings dialog

- the front/rear setting for input 1 did not become active immediately

- In clock mode slave a warning for wrong input clock is now displayed

Re: Driver 3.x and multiple units

CDan wrote:

Are you using separate Firewire 800 connections for both units?  I have tried multiple units with two on Firewire 800 and one on Firewire 400 because that is the way a lot of the cards come but it doesn't always work right.  Even when I have the units on separate busses so there is lots of bandwidth.  Once you go past a single unit I have found you have to use Firewire 800 or they go out of sync.  Just a thought.

I've connected unit 2 to unit 1 by FW400 cable. Unit 1 goes to PC by FW800 cable. Thus FF800 units are daisy-chained to one 1394b port.
Some of my problems may be bandwidth related but I can't disable any I/O because all of them are in active use.

sonarmods.com

Re: Driver 3.x and multiple units

Ziki wrote:

CDan > Even the readme file that comes with 3.016 is really for 2.9992. ????

u mean this ?


RME  Intelligent Audio Solutions

Fireface 400/800

Driver for Windows XP/Vista/7 32/64 Bit

Important information: Driver version 3.016

General news, changes and fixes


------------------

V 3.016 (06/30/2010, current firmware: 2.77 / 1.70)

- the FF 800 did not show all I/Os under WDM

- using multiple FFs the latency and sample rate setting was not synchronized in the Settings dialog

- the front/rear setting for input 1 did not become active immediately

- In clock mode slave a warning for wrong input clock is now displayed

OOOpps Sorry
I must have opened the wrong one.  My mistake.

Re: Driver 3.x and multiple units

Hey Panu
I think that is your problem.  If using more than one you HAVE to use firewire 800 for all units.(in my experience and insisted on by RME) or else you run the risk of the sync problem you describe.  It is not just a bandwidth problem, it is something else(not sure what but the owners manual is pretty clear that they want you to use firewire 800 with more than one unit). I had the same problem with loads of bandwidth available and still got it.  Only corrected when I ran separate FW800 cables - and was even able to consistently make it go in and out of sync simply by changing one of the units between 800 and 400. You could try connecting the second one to the first via the second FW 800 connection but I can't vouch that that will work either.  You pretty much should be running two separate firewire 800 cables back to your computer for it to work properly.  That is what I believe RME recommends and is the only way it has worked properly for me.

9

Re: Driver 3.x and multiple units

CDan wrote:

But with the new driver 3.016 it would only see one FF and it didn't matter which one I had on.

I think you stumbled over the problem that Plug&Play is partly disabled in W7. The driver will find any FW unit, but you have to manually install it for any unit before that.

http://www.rme-audio.de/forum/viewtopic.php?id=7348

Regards
Matthias Carstens
RME

Re: Driver 3.x and multiple units

CDan wrote:

Hey Panu
I think that is your problem.  If using more than one you HAVE to use firewire 800 for all units.(in my experience and insisted on by RME) or else you run the risk of the sync problem you describe.  It is not just a bandwidth problem, it is something else(not sure what but the owners manual is pretty clear that they want you to use firewire 800 with more than one unit). I had the same problem with loads of bandwidth available and still got it.  Only corrected when I ran separate FW800 cables - and was even able to consistently make it go in and out of sync simply by changing one of the units between 800 and 400. You could try connecting the second one to the first via the second FW 800 connection but I can't vouch that that will work either.  You pretty much should be running two separate firewire 800 cables back to your computer for it to work properly.  That is what I believe RME recommends and is the only way it has worked properly for me.

Hi again,

I was on holiday but now I'm back in studio again... Thanks for your valuable hints!

FW400 cable between FF800 units worked for years in my 32-bit XP system. However, now I tried to replace it with FW800 cable. Playback works right for half a minute but after that there will occasional glitches and Errors count in Fireface begins to increase.

I tried to connect both units separately to PC. This works worst - playback gets into problems in few seconds.

I already tried to replace one FW800 cable but there was no change. I'll go to buy completely new cables next and find a new 1394b card.

I tried to reduce 2nd unit's bandwidth; no change.
I tried to give Sonar more priority; no change.

-Panu

sonarmods.com

Re: Driver 3.x and multiple units

Does it make a difference whether you are using the legacy Firewire driver or not?

Re: Driver 3.x and multiple units

Legacy driver works only with one unit in my setup.
But now I've found a wonderful solution after trying all kind of cabling alternatives:  I connected both units by Firewire 400 cable to different Firewire interfaces. 1st unit goes to Belkin add-on card and 2nd to motherboard's built-in interface. Now ALL problems seems to be gone!

So here's my table of working and non-working cabling alternatives for 2 FF800 units:

Daisy chain:
Unit2 --firewire 400 cable ---> Unit1 ---firewire 800 cable ---> 1394b card: quite good but occasional problems
Unit2 --firewire 800 cable ---> Unit1 ---firewire 800 cable ---> 1394b card: not reliable; works maybe half a minute before errors

Separately:
Unit2 --firewire 800 cable ---> 1394b, Unit1 ---firewire 800 cable ---> 1394b card: totally unusable
Unit2 --firewire 400 cable ---> motherboard Firewire 400, Unit1 ---firewire 400 cable ---> 1394b card: OK!

1394b card = Sunix Firewire 400/800
Motherboard: Asus P6T, no overclocking
Processor: i7 950
Windows 7, 64-bit

-Panu

sonarmods.com