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RME User Forum → HDSP(e) series → HDSP 9652 with Hammerfall Multiface?
Hi,
Can I use my RME HDSP 9652 with an RME Multiface Hammerfall through the ADAT connections.
Failing that does anyone have any ideas for a solution? When I look at the options on the website
it doesnt really put things across clearly.
Suggestions, help would be appreciated
Thanks
Yes, if the Multiface is connected to the dedicated HDSP PCI(e) card... MF won't work as standalone converter.
Regards
Daniel Fuchs
RME
Ok, so what your saying is I would need to install the multiface pci card as well.
Would I need to install the Multiface drivers as well? I ask because I had a lot of trouble with the 9652 drivers and for now its operational and my conern there is adding the multiface drivers could create conflicts. And what drivers would actually be using...very confusing.
What I dont understand about the ADAT, PCI Card routine is what exactly is doing the conversion. Is it the in out box or the interface card. If its the box then I gain no advantage from using my 9652. Would that be correct?
And is the multiface a decent convertor? It seems discontinued. Does the new one use the same conversion
I bought the 9652 to get in to better quality than what I was using. But It seems that within my price range to get 8 line ins and outs Im limited to either something like the Behringer AD8000 which has mostly bad reviews or something like a Focusrite Octopre which I feel is aimed more at people who need mic inputs and the line inputs are some kind of after thought. I dont need any mic inputs. I wanted to get an RME interface but the 8 in 8 out one thats compatible with my card is very expensive.
I was hoping this multiface might be a solution and I hope the convertors inside it are good. Are they they same as the multiface 11?
Thanks
I'd look for a used ADI-8 Pro or equivalent IMNSHO. Using the Multiface as a standalone AD/DA converter is kind of a kluge since you have to purchase the PCI card to go with it for the sole purpose of loading the unit's FPGA firmware when it is initialized and to set the I/O routing in Totalmix. Once you get that setup, the Multiface's PCI card is basically un-used and is a wasted investment.
If you are cool with eBay you can find many suitable ADAT AD/DA converters that would fit the bill and give you some descent conversion. Of course the RME ADI-8 DS is available new, but costs a pretty penny. Even something like a Fronteir Designs Tango would likely fit the bill...
Addition - The MF-II uses updated converters IIRC, but the original Multiface is easily on par with most interfaces in that ballpark IMO. The ADA-8000 is of course of Behringer build quality, but I've heard many descent recordings made with them. Buyer beware 
Hi Randy,
Totally appreciate your response. :-)
ADI-8 Pro - Even second hand their our of my price range for the moment. Ive just spent a fair bit on some outboard synths such as a Moog Voyager so money is tight.
Tango - Interesting. I found only one available in ebay from the US. Im based in the UK, but that doesn't bother me. What does is the box is from way back in 1998. Its getting on a bit. Thats not to say it wouldn't be a decent box and I do prefer the idea of just connecting adat cables
AD8000 - The reviews are at total ends of the spectrum. On one hand people say their great on the other people say they are horrible. I actually don't think they would be horrible. But as you say buyer beware. The reviews from some magazines I have read all concentrate on the Mic pres. Not one of them talk about the line inputs. But this is so common now (chat about mic pres) its really become a false one sided review. From mixers to interfaces, its ALWAYS the mic pres. very frustrating for people like me that dont need any.
Back to the Multiface:
Using the Multiface as a standalone AD/DA converter is kind of a kluge since you have to purchase the PCI card to go with it for the sole purpose of loading the unit's FPGA firmware when it is initialized and to set the I/O routing in Totalmix. Once you get that setup, the Multiface's PCI card is basically un-used and is a wasted investment.
Theres one on Ebay. Its the Mark 1 and it comes with the PCI card. I understand part of what your saying but Im still a bit HeadScratch. I understand I would need to install the face's PCI card to install the FPGA. I dont know what this is but I have no problem is thats the PCI cards sole purpose. But where I get HeadScratch is what drivers would I be using. Would I need to install the multifaces drivers? or can I then just attach the ADAT cables to the 9652 as if I were attaching any stand alone adat box. If I had to install the multifaces driver as well that would concern me as I had a lot of problems getting the 9652 drivers installed. I purchased the 9652 for quality but if I also need the Multifaces drivers what is the point in attaching the adat cables to the 9652. Do you follow me? It seems a bit of a waste of time unless the 9652 adat connection improves the quality. I just dont understand the relationship between the two in such a situation.
When I bought the 9652 I actually thought it had a simple stereo output which was all I needed at the time. So its my fault im in this situation. Its sat there doing nothing for many months now except for a trial stint with a Motu 828mk11 which was borrowed from a friend. It worked fine but there were a couple of things I didn't like about the Motu. Now that I actually do need multiple analog ins I would really like to get my 9652 operating
If you can give me some more of your wisdom I will send you a really large cheque when Im rich and famous :-)
There is a mod to bypass the Behringer's Preamps and basically make it a true line-level AD/DA. Google should turn up something.
Used ADI-8 Pros (or Nuendo 8 I/O's - same unit with a Nuendo faceplate) generally run from $400-$600 for the 44/48K models (the "DS" model that supports 96K will demand more).
The Multiface Breakout Box is basically useless on its own. You would have to connect it to the HDSP PCI card in order for it to load its firmware (the FPGA chip in the Multiface loses it's code when power is removed from the Multiface Box - the code is re-loaded from the PCI card everytime the unit is powered on). So, you would indeed need to install the PCI card AND drivers so you can configure Totalmix to route the Multiface's Analog ins to ADAT outs and vice-versa. If the drivers aren't loaded, then the Multiface would receive power and likely the FPGA firmware, but it wouldn't know how to route its I/O w/o access to Totalmix via the driver...
Lol - My wisdom runs thin! I'm just glad to be of help as I remember all the online help I received through my trials and tribulations over the years. :-)
Thanks Randyman. Ive pretty much given up the idea of the multiface because not only do I fear a bit of hassle I just realised have no more PCI slots...Doh!! I have more PCIe slots though but thats no use in this instance.
I cant find a used ADI-8 and I kind of want to get on with it this week. After all I have to write a few large hits so I can send you that cheque
Im getting real :roll about this now. I dont think I have ever been so confused about a bit of gear
Ok So I narrow it down to 2 boxes.
The Behringer AD8000
or
The Focusrite Octopre MK11 (which just falls within my budget)
There could be an issue with the Behringer in that the inputs are not replicated as direct outs. Im not sure I understand what folks are saying on forums but if I cant insert external instruments plugins in to my Daw so that my outboard gear can come up on different channels then the Behringer is a definite no. I dont think I have this problem with the Octopre, but then again I dont even know if the Octopre will work....I hate adat DeadHorse I just dont understand it at all rant
I do like the little emotion thingys though
Do you see any issues with the Octo Mk11. Its got the adat connection, can take line inputs and theres one on Ebay which is an ex demo model coming in at 75 pounds less than the new price. A bit more than the Behringer but it does have little meters, and generally looks like a nicer box, and I cant deny that I would trust that box more than the Behringer
If you can answer this one last time I will double your royalty. I have a global hit waiting, it just needs your wisdom :-)
Thanks
Basically any AD/DA converter that has ADAT I/O will work fine with your 9652.
The Octopre MK-II is not exactly a high-end box - but if that's your budget then that's your budget . It should work fine - but you are aware that it's only an AD converter, right? (It only converts from Analog to ADAT, and not the other way around!). The Octopre MK-II "Dynamic" model adds DA conversion (ADAT to Analog conversion) and crude limiting - and of course costs more than the "base" Octopre MK-II.
I believe the DigimaxFS is a combo AD/DA converter if you require more analog outputs from your 9652. ART also has their Tube Opto 8. These are all basically in the same "consumer" price range, and you likely won't be missing much from one versus another (they are all loosely comparable in this low-end price range).
If you can wait and track down a used ADI-8 Pro - your will have far superior conversion versus the low-end units you are currently considering. I've been down the "cheap gear just to get me started" phase - and I don't have any of that gear now (I sold it all for a loss to put towards more appropriate professional gear). If you are serious about audio and you want to keep doing this for years and years it makes much more sense to get "Pro" gear in the first place.
It just depends what you are expecting and how far you wish to go. Instant gratification with low-end gear is a hard thing to pass up - but in the long run, saving and buying professional gear is a far better way to approach this if you have any plans of serious work in this field. I had to learn the hard way even after experienced people gave me this same speech years ago! Just like you can't teach a child not to touch a hot stove - they have to get burned for themselves rotfl
Good luck!
I have to +1 the ADI idea. It's a good investment. I bought a second hand Nuendo 8 I/O, as mentioned the same as the ADI Pro (44.1/48 kHz), and it was a very noticeable step up in clarity and resolution from the Multiface 1 and is in the same league as the Fireface series. But keep in mind that every link of your audio reproduction chain contributes to your appreciation of quality conversion: source, source D/A conversion, amplification and speakers (and if you want to get serious, you have to deal with your room's acoustics, and sound isolation from the outside and from noisy equipment). For most, it's near impossible to appreciate the difference between a Multiface, an ADI Pro, ADI QS, Lavry or Prism on a pair of NS-10's sitting in a cramped untreated bedroom.
In the end you have to consider your needs, your requirements, your budget and your goals. It's really a personal decision.
Thanks again for your reply Randyman :-)
I became aware last night that the Octopre MK11 is a one way street. I cant foresee why I would need it to be able to send the other way around unless I got my self an analog console which I have no plans to do for the foreseeable future. The Octopre with the built in limiting is something I just wont need. All the siganls I will send to the box are lin level synths and drum machine and sampler
I intend to use the interface as a sort of submixer. I was initially going to go for a small format mixer, but the choice within my price range is limited. It boiled down to a Mackie 1202VLZ3 or something there abouts. The thing Is I need to be able to add eq and some FX to my outboard noise makers as I write tunes. I cant work dry like some people, i need to hear it as I write if it were a record and the best way to do this is bring them in to the Daw via external instrument channels so that I can process with eq, compression etc. I can get a far better result with my eq and compression plugins than I would a Mackie VLZ3.
I totally hear what your saying about quality, but would this route be worse than buying a Mackie? I wouldn't
imagine so. While I agree the Octopre is anything but mega high quality I wouldnt have thought my MPC is going to sound like a blanket has been slapped over the outputs. I dont expect mega quality but would I be unrealistic in thinking that I could at least match the quality of the Mackie.
I would of course want something better like the ADI-8 Pro but ive just blown my budget, mostly on the Moog Voyager. (he says convincing himself the Octopre is a must have right now) For now Im using an M Audio thing which only has two inputs and I have to plug one thing in at a time. Its really annoying when I want to have my new stuff all playing in concert. yes I could wait and save up but Im not sure I can wait the month it would take to reaise the cash. Im prepared to take a loss when I upgrade.
Ive appreciated you taking the time. When you hear a celebration brass band band coming down your road accompanied by large white Cadillac complete with hotties hanging out the windows you will know its me with your cheque!
I have to +1 the ADI idea. It's a good investment. I bought a second hand Nuendo 8 I/O, as mentioned the same as the ADI Pro (44.1/48 kHz), and it was a very noticeable step up in clarity and resolution from the Multiface 1 and is in the same league as the Fireface series. But keep in mind that every link of your audio reproduction chain contributes to your appreciation of quality conversion: source, source D/A conversion, amplification and speakers (and if you want to get serious, you have to deal with your room's acoustics, and sound isolation from the outside and from noisy equipment). For most, it's near impossible to appreciate the difference between a Multiface, an ADI Pro, ADI QS, Lavry or Prism on a pair of NS-10's sitting in a cramped untreated bedroom.
In the end you have to consider your needs, your requirements, your budget and your goals. It's really a personal decision.
I hear you.
I would get an ADI or Nuendo 8 I/O tomorrow but Ive searched for them and cant find one SH. I see new ADI's a plenty but no SH ones at all.
Edit:
The Tango is still available. Not much info on it though, barely even a picture or two can be found.
Im also thinking I can get the AD8000 less than half the price of the Focusrite. My hunch is that the difference between the two would be negligible. Seeing as its only a temporary measure its seems more logical to take a loss on the AD8000. If I get six months out of it I would be happy enough. By that time I could probably afford an ADI. I actually don't have that much confidence in the Focusrite because I once bought one of their all in one Platinum voice channels which was utter rubbish. Its the only piece of gear I have ever bought that I just couldn't use because it sounded so bad. It was about 400 pounds at the time as well.
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