• Registered: 2010-10-22
  • Posts: 27

Topic: FFUC crackling problem : one more here !

Hello there smile

A a new owner of a Fireface UC, very nice piece of gear, rock stable ... almost !

I'm experiencing problems with my fireface. I recorded some track, no problem, no crack nothing, even with a 64 samples buffer.
Problems comes during playback only. As soon as there is some activity on screen, I'm hearing crackling noise.
It can be me moving the cursor, adjusting parameters, or if I zoom to max to cubase, only the display update causes problems.

Additional infos :

- computer laptop sony VAIO FZ38m ( core2duo T8100, 4gb ram, nvidia 8400gt mobile)
- I use windows 7 64bits
- all drivers are up to date (win, chipset, graphic card, RME fxmix & firmware from yesterday wink )
- graphic card nvidia m8400gt
- I tried various drivers tweaks (desactivate unneeded periphericals and services, ie no wifi, no ACPI battery, no webcam, no firewire, ... )
- I tried to desactivate the nvidia card and use only VGA standard adapter
- I tried to uncheck the multi processor support in cubase
- I use cubase 5 latest update
- The average ASIO load without any activity on screen is very low (only 1 track playing can cause the problem)
- I can see ASIO overload when on screen activity (using cubase ASIO monitor - using latency check software, I see only a small load increase)
- problems happened only with certain sounds : I tried to record a simple background noise, and amplify it enough to hear it, but it didn"t cause problem. If I amplify it to a highest level, then i can hear the problem ! So it seems to be related to the playback level.
- If I increase the ASIO buffering, the problem tends to disapear (but my system should be able to handle the playback of only 1 track, without effect wink)
- I tried with external screen, same problem
- I don't have this problem with embedded sound chipset (that is desactivated when using the FFUC)
- I don"t know what to do, I'm a little disapointed, because it's difficult to adjust parameter when causing so much crackling !

Please help, I really don't know what to do now sad
Best regards from Greece
-fx

2 Reply by Manolo (edited by Manolo 2010-10-22 10:02:16)

  • Manolo
  • AES/EBU artist
  • Offline
  • From: France
  • Registered: 2007-10-24
  • Posts: 145

Re: FFUC crackling problem : one more here !

Not a solution but it could be a clue. I only have crackling noise during playback on my desktop if I have an USB Wifi key plugged and there's some data transferred up or down, to or from the web.

  • Registered: 2010-10-22
  • Posts: 27

Re: FFUC crackling problem : one more here !

thanks for the help, but nothing else is attached to USB ports sad

-fx

  • Registered: 2008-01-01
  • Posts: 3,025

Re: FFUC crackling problem : one more here !

Download PowerMizer Manager and set the Nvidia driver to a fixed 3D mode.

  • Registered: 2010-10-22
  • Posts: 27

Re: FFUC crackling problem : one more here !

I

don't understand everything now, but 'll try this !

thanks a lot !
-fx

  • Registered: 2010-10-22
  • Posts: 27

Re: FFUC crackling problem : one more here !

ok same problem unfortunately sad
I set the parameters on best perf, but nothing new !!!
I add that the FFUC control panel doesn't report any USB error

-fx

  • Registered: 2010-10-22
  • Posts: 27

Re: FFUC crackling problem : one more here !

Hello
,
some news:

- the noise seems more like a bitcrusher than glitch, and seems to affect only loud sounds
- If I set cubase to realtime with the task manager, the problems go away, not completely, but almost !!!

Any idea ?
-fx

  • Registered: 2010-10-22
  • Posts: 27

Re: FFUC crackling problem : one more here !

Hum, nothing new under the (greek) sun sad

I tried all the day to find a solution, but it's beyond my knowledge !!!
-fx

  • Registered: 2008-01-01
  • Posts: 3,025

Re: FFUC crackling problem : one more here !

http://lmgtfy.com/?q=powermizer+manager

  • Registered: 2010-10-22
  • Posts: 27

Re: FFUC crackling problem : one more here !

Hi

ok same problem unfortunately sad
I set the parameters on best perf, but nothing new !!!

As I said, I already tested powermizer, with a high performance fixed setup, but with no succes !!!

Thanks for the help
-fx

  • Registered: 2008-01-01
  • Posts: 3,025

Re: FFUC crackling problem : one more here !

Sorry, misunderstood you. I assume you noticed that there is a battery and a plugged in profile?

If it's not the NVidia driver (which version are you using) then it's likely that there is still another driver (Wlan, USB etc). For a try make sure you also kill any process that is running for special media/quicklaunch buttons on the laptop. Please post a screenshot of DPC Latency Checker: http://www.thesycon.de/deu/latency_check.shtml

Does Cubase 5 still not have an option for either MMCSS or Realtime priorities from within the program? The reason you get better performance with manual realtime is likely that Cubase is still using the highest *non*-realtime priority then which on Vista/W7 is also used by Aero/DWM. You cannot change that for DWM via Task-Manager (even if it seems so), so your only option would be to turn off Aero and try then or just keep Cubase running at realtime.

It's also possible that some other task is conflicting with Cubase at highest priority (i.e. Task-Manager also uses this priority by default). If Cubase is using MMCSS and you have some background task running constantly with some CPU load it can also mess things up.

  • Registered: 2010-10-22
  • Posts: 27

Re: FFUC crackling problem : one more here !

Hello

I tried to suspend aero, as well as all other suspendable services, but with no succes...
I killed all process with the task manager, unsuccessfully too.

The problem happend only when there is some activity, ie on screen, and it's not periodical.
I'll try to post a screenshot of dpc latency checker (the one I used), but as my muscial computer is not web connected, it may take some times.
One will only see a light increase of ASIO latency when I move some windows on screen, but nothing alarming, no spikes and a latency that raise barely above 1000?s. At the opposite, the ASIO meter in cubase shows me a lot of spikes (with the red dot flashing) at the same time.

surely a mess with some drivers, but cannot find what ...

As for powermizer, yes I fixed the two settings, both to high performance !

Thanks Timur !
-fx

  • Registered: 2010-09-27
  • Posts: 9

Re: FFUC crackling problem : one more here !

That really helped me!! I turned Aero off and set Cubase at realtime in task-manager. Now, I'm running heavy loaded project with 256 buffer - CPU is over 90 without crackling. Nice!

I'm just wondering, do I have to set the realtime mode every time when I restart Cubase or the computer?

  • Registered: 2010-10-22
  • Posts: 27

Re: FFUC crackling problem : one more here !

Ahah, I just saw a post about nvidia problems with ASIO on the laptopvideo2go, and that post was from ... you, Tibur wink
I found a problem, when checking with aero, windows reported me that my graphic card does not support the windows drivers model, and thus I cannot activate aero ... that's not a big miss, but that means that there is  aproblem with my graphic drivers....

Im supposed to have the 260.52 version installed, as reported by the device manager, but windows still complains, and I discovered that I cannot launch the nvidia control center ...

Timur, have you any advice on what drivers from videolaptop2go I should install (nvidia 8400m GT, win 7 64 bits) ???
If I dont find any other solution, maybe I'll consider to downgrade to a 32bits version.

best regarsd
-fx

15 Reply by Timur Born (edited by Timur 2010-10-24 14:12:13)

  • Registered: 2008-01-01
  • Posts: 3,025

Re: FFUC crackling problem : one more here !

I advice against using version 260.x drivers at the moment, try version 19x drivers instead, or especially with Vaios use the drivers provided by Sony.

The v260 are supposed to fix DPC issues for a range of cards, but also introduced many issue during Beta. I'm working with NVidia's ManuelG via the NVidia forum concerning the DPC issues, but my Macbook (9600M) is at Apple right now. I prefer using PowerMizer Manager with older versions to having a DPC fixed driver that introduces other issues.

That you cannot open the NVidia control panel indicates some serious mess-up so I suggest to uninstall the drivers completely (and maybe even run DriverCleaner afterwards) and try again (either v26x again for a try, or just use 19x).

When you are checking DPC latencies also run GPU-Z (go to "Sensors" tab) to see what clock-rate the GPU is currently running at.

You can also use the "Standard VGA" driver (which even allows access to the "Troubleshooting" tab of the display settings), but usually you really want to use Aero, because it brings several advantages and both drivers and DAW coders should get their collective *ss*s up to make proper use of it.

@Steve: There is a freeware utility that allows you to start any program with the CPU priority of your choice, I just cannot remember it's name atm. Using Realtime priority has one major drawback: When you overload or stall/hang Cubase it will stall Windows, too (Cubase is in realtime-control of your computer).

MMCSS is the compromise offered by Microsoft since Vista, but DAW coders don't make much use of it (Cakewalk Sonar does successfully). Samplitude offer full realtime priorities inside the program, so I at least hope that they also implemented a "Watchdog" function to keep itself from stalling.

  • Registered: 2010-10-22
  • Posts: 27

Re: FFUC crackling problem : one more here !

Hello

I finally installed a 197.xx Nvidia drivers, powermizered it, activated aero, and ... same problem .... FFUC !!!!
DPC doesn"t report any problem, only cubase ASIO meter does, and I've still the crakling
I think I'll consider a downgrade to VISTA 32bits that was preinstalled on the laptop, or maybe I can transfer my 7 64bits home premium licence to a 32 bits version ?

Anyway thanks for the help !
-fx

17 Reply by Timur Born (edited by Timur 2010-10-24 22:27:55)

  • Registered: 2008-01-01
  • Posts: 3,025

Re: FFUC crackling problem : one more here !

What happens when you disable Aero? And what happens when you change the CPU priority of Cubase (with or without Aero)?

I don't expect changing to 32-bit Vista to be much of a help, but you never know.

What bandwidth "reserved" value does the FF UC show via Device-Manager (check USB Hubs' settings to see the bandwidth reservation)? I saw one laptop that had problems dealing with the UC in combination with an USB copy-protection dongle, but on that laptop the USB bandwidth was seriously restricted (100 mbit instead of 480 mbit USB 2.0 bandwidth).

  • Registered: 2010-10-22
  • Posts: 27

Re: FFUC crackling problem : one more here !

Hello

Enabling/disabling aero does not seems to change anything. Changing priority to real time decrease the problem a lot, without solving it completely.

I was talking about Vista32, because it was coming pre installed on the laptop, and I never experienced issue with it (didn't try with the FFUC though)

As for the USB bandwidth, if I check with the device manager under "intel Ich8 family USB2 Ehanced Host Controler - 2836", I can see that the FFUC use 23% only, even when playback a cubase multi track record. Maybe that's the problem ?

-fx

19 Reply by Timur Born (edited by Timur 2010-10-25 08:41:50)

  • Registered: 2008-01-01
  • Posts: 3,025

Re: FFUC crackling problem : one more here !

You can try the preinstalled Vista32 in hope that it helps the issue, but if so then most likely some driver or (even more likely) the laptop's BIOS just works better with it. I used the FF UC successfully with Vista (mostly 64-bit though).

The bandwidth is correct. On a 480 mbit USB 2.0 bus the UC reserves around 100-110 mbit. That's plenty enough for all inputs and outputs to run at once.

The Firefaces don't like 48/96/192 samples buffer as much as 64/128/256, but here is Reaper 2 running near 100% CPU load at 48 samples (Vista 64), 44.1 kHz after forcing Reaper to "Realtime" priority (which only hold as long as you don't change anything in Reaper):

http://img20.imageshack.us/img20/9249/fotofinishreaper2.th.png

  • Registered: 2010-10-22
  • Posts: 27

Re: FFUC crackling problem : one more here !

As for me, I cannot even play a 1 track playback at 64samples  sad

-fx

  • Registered: 2008-01-01
  • Posts: 3,025

Re: FFUC crackling problem : one more here !

Any BIOS update available from Sony maybe?

  • Registered: 2010-10-22
  • Posts: 27

Re: FFUC crackling problem : one more here !

Hum, unfortunately no, and there is nothing interesting in that BIOS, you can only change the boot sequence sad
Maybe I'll consider spending few ? more to buy a rackmounted PC after all ... sad

-fx

  • Registered: 2008-01-01
  • Posts: 3,025

Re: FFUC crackling problem : one more here !

The screenshot you saw earlier was done on a bootcamped Macbook Pro (that doesn't even have a bug-free EFI/BIOS-emulation).

  • Registered: 2010-10-22
  • Posts: 27

Re: FFUC crackling problem : one more here !

Hi wish I didn't get my MBP stolen last year in Italy, now I'm stucked with that old sony sad
I'm currently reinstalling a 32bits version, I hope that it will not be a mess with the licence.

-fx

  • Registered: 2010-10-22
  • Posts: 27

Re: FFUC crackling problem : one more here !

Bah, same problem with the 32bits version of windows 7... sad

-fx

  • Registered: 2008-01-01
  • Posts: 3,025

Re: FFUC crackling problem : one more here !

When you say that DPC Latency Checker showed no problem, what was the maximum?

Try switching to the "Standard VGA" driver again and set the slider in the Display -> Troubleshooting settings at least one notch down to the left.

  • Registered: 2010-10-22
  • Posts: 27

Re: FFUC crackling problem : one more here !

DPC report a small increase of latency, but nothing above 1ms, it's around 600?s when doing nothing, and raise to 900/1000?s when doing some activity on screen !

I'll try with the VGA standard, but I don't think it'll work, because I tried to install cubase before the NVIDIA drivers, and the problems was there. But I'll try. Next I'll switch computers, I've an ACER 3810TGZ, with an intel SU4100. It's sure less powerfull than a T8100, but it will do the job, don"t you think ? It handled 48 tracks with plugins, via the integrated sound chip & ASIO4ALL : not bad big_smile

-fx

  • Registered: 2010-10-22
  • Posts: 27

Re: FFUC crackling problem : one more here !

I did a test, with strange results ... I recently moved my cubase installation to another computer, a ACER laptop, intel SU4100, ATI card, and ... same problem ! WTF ?
Is it an hardware problem ? I set up a single mono track in cubase, recorded it with no problem (no crackling or anything, when I record, ASIO meter stable, no problem) but when I played it, with no effects, no plugins or nothing, still the same problem : 35% CPU load when playing, crakling, still the same problem !
Can it be a power supply problem ? I don"t think so, because the crackling are coming from ASIO problem, as the ASIO meter in cubase reports it, but who knows.
I'll try to find a free ASIO software, to make some tests !

-fx

  • Registered: 2010-10-22
  • Posts: 27

Re: FFUC crackling problem : one more here !

Ok, I gave a try to demo version of reaper. Very nice software, a lot of improvements since older versions !!!
But ... same problem sad (on a fresh windows installation, no cubase dongle or whatever)

What's that mess ??? sad
-fx

30 Reply by MC

  • MC
  • MC
  • Administrator
  • Offline
  • From: Germany/Thailand
  • Registered: 2007-04-06
  • Posts: 25,599

Re: FFUC crackling problem : one more here !

Did you try a different USB cable? Also one can never rule out that the UC itself is defective. Is there a way to test a different unit on your computers?

Regards
Matthias Carstens
RME

MC's Website

  • Registered: 2010-10-22
  • Posts: 27

Re: FFUC crackling problem : one more here !

Hello

I'll try a different USB cable, didn't thought about it, my bad ! I will buy another one soon !
As for the unit, it's the only one I have, unfortunately. I tried the same computer/track with the integrated chipset and ASIO4ALL, and the problem was absent !
I tried also FFUC under ASIO4ALL with some succes, activating the hardware buffer gave me some good results !

-fx

  • Registered: 2010-10-22
  • Posts: 27

Re: FFUC crackling problem : one more here !

I must add that unfortunately, I bought the card used, because it's was unavailable here, from a french musician. So it's not under warranty, I don"t think so sad

Best regards
-fx

  • From: Germany
  • Registered: 2007-04-10
  • Posts: 9,776

Re: FFUC crackling problem : one more here !

All UC units are still under warranty. Please mail me the serial number and I'll find out what we can do.


Regards
Daniel Fuchs
RME

Regards
Daniel Fuchs
RME

RME Support's Website

  • Registered: 2010-10-22
  • Posts: 27

Re: FFUC crackling problem : one more here !

Hello

thanks for the help smile
I'll check the USB cable first to avoid useless complications, and I'll report the results here !
After that I'll contact you by PM !

Thanks a lot
Best regards !
-fx

  • Registered: 2010-10-22
  • Posts: 27

Re: FFUC crackling problem : one more here !

Ok, no luck with the USB cable ... I tried three differents ones, one was very good, short with ferrite core, the other longer, simple.
No change ... sad

So here we go, I'll send you the serial number ...

Best regards, and thanks to all folks for the help smile
-fx

  • Registered: 2010-10-22
  • Posts: 27

Re: FFUC crackling problem : one more here !

Hello

Did you receive my email Daniel ?

Thank you !
-fx

  • From: Germany
  • Registered: 2007-04-10
  • Posts: 9,776

Re: FFUC crackling problem : one more here !

Yes, thanks. Will keep you updated.


Regards,
Daniel Fuchs
RME

Regards
Daniel Fuchs
RME

RME Support's Website

  • Registered: 2010-10-22
  • Posts: 27

Re: FFUC crackling problem : one more here !

Ok, let me know smile

Best regards !
-fx

  • Registered: 2010-10-22
  • Posts: 27

Re: FFUC crackling problem : one more here !

Here is a short sample of the noise I get :

http://f.defaut.free.fr/Musique/Crackling.mp3

The first part is clean, nothing happened, then I scrolled the cubase windows, then I navigate in the explorer windows thru directories, and at the end, clean again, I was doing nothing.

The sound is like slowed down !

I tried various power adapter, a Switch Mode Power Supply 9v 1A, and a transformer based Power Supply, 12v 1A. Same problem with both of them !

I'm planning a return with Daniel !

-fx

  • Registered: 2010-10-22
  • Posts: 27

Re: FFUC crackling problem : one more here !

Finally ... found a solution smile
Not perfect, but I got rid of 99% of the noises !!!

The solution was simply the latest Nvidia 261.00 drivers versions !!!

Now I can even browse the web and run cubase in background, all with 64 buffer size

Thanks all for your help smile
Best regards
-fx

  • Registered: 2010-10-09
  • Posts: 5

Re: FFUC crackling problem : one more here !

fxdfxd wrote:

thanks for the help, but nothing else is attached to USB ports sad

-fx

maybe internal USB, or PCI aka internal stuff like WLAN, or Soundcard, or Modem Stuff

42 Reply by meltemi (edited by meltemi 2010-11-13 04:11:28)

  • Registered: 2010-02-05
  • Posts: 9

Re: FFUC crackling problem : one more here !

In Cubase 5, check which ASIO driver is loaded after startup (Ger?te / Ger?te konfigurieren / VST-Audiosystem).

I noticed, that every time I start Cubase 5 (Lenovo T60, Win Vista 32bit),
the "Generic Low Latency ASIO Driver" or previously the "ASIO DirectX Full Duplex Driver" were loaded, which both caused crackles on playback.
Selecting the "ASIO Fireface USB" seems to solve the problem (when Cubase asks you "Soll der ASIO-Treiber gewechselt werden?" click "Wechseln").

But so far, I could not find a way to force Cubase 5 to always use and keep the "ASIO Fireface USB" driver as the standard VST-Audiosystem driver.