1 (edited by Eric Bradley 2010-10-10 22:00:19)

Topic: A Few questions about the NEW Fireface 2.83 driver?

I have two questions about the new driver.

Matthias has stated that the "Transmission format changed".
What does it mean exactly?

I've also noticed that you've "Improved low latency performance".
How is this possible? Have you changed the safety buffer?

Thanks!

//Eric

RME Fireface UFX
Mac Mini 2.6 GHz 16 GB Ram Areca RAID | MacBook Pro 2,2 GHz 16 GB Ram | OS 10.10.5

2

Re: A Few questions about the NEW Fireface 2.83 driver?

The Safety Buffer is Windows. On Mac we had a Safety Offset of 64 samples before, now reduced to 32 samples, which is 64 samples less for the whole through-latency. The internal format change is nothing to talk about as neither you nor any software will ever notice it. It's really an internal thing.

Regards
Matthias Carstens
RME

3 (edited by Eric Bradley 2010-10-10 21:59:50)

Re: A Few questions about the NEW Fireface 2.83 driver?

Danke sch?n Matthias.
The new Safety Offset is a really nice enhancement.

//Eric

RME Fireface UFX
Mac Mini 2.6 GHz 16 GB Ram Areca RAID | MacBook Pro 2,2 GHz 16 GB Ram | OS 10.10.5

Re: A Few questions about the NEW Fireface 2.83 driver?

Does this mean that the total output latency of the FF on OS X is now 32 samples lower than the one on Windows (while the input latency still is a bit higher)? At same audio buffer settings that is.

Re: A Few questions about the NEW Fireface 2.83 driver?

Wow, I just updated and had a listen. At 32 samples, runs beautifully and reports Roundtrip Latency of 4.3ms at 48kHz (In LogicPro 9.1.1 on MacOSX.6.4). That's awesome and sounds brilliant for tracking through soft monitoring.
Recording at 192kHz, 64 samples is reporting 2.4ms... Awesome!!

----------------
Matt McKenzie-Smith (UFXII, UFX, Babyface) MacStudioUltra OS12.4
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6

Re: A Few questions about the NEW Fireface 2.83 driver?

I have to do a more precise (and correct) statement. Formerly the FW driver had a Safety Offset of 64 samples. As this one is for record and playback it's 128 samples. Now we have this one reduced to 32 (=64), but added an additional playback Safety Buffer (like in Windows) of 32 samples. So its 96 instead of 128 before, the total improvement is 32 samples less delay. I will change the readme text to make this more clear.

Regards
Matthias Carstens
RME

7 (edited by mattrixx 2010-10-12 04:11:27)

Re: A Few questions about the NEW Fireface 2.83 driver?

However it is, I've never been able to monitor through Logic at 32 samples and not really notice it. :-)   It's great now!!!
Possibly something to do with the 'Performance at low latency' being improved?

Also, to give credit where credit is due, I would like to say a big thank you to the RME team for continuing to support the FF800, which is quite old in terms of it's lifetime in the field. Testimony to its design etc.

----------------
Matt McKenzie-Smith (UFXII, UFX, Babyface) MacStudioUltra OS12.4
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8 (edited by Eric Bradley 2010-10-13 08:39:04)

Re: A Few questions about the NEW Fireface 2.83 driver?

MC wrote:

I have to do a more precise (and correct) statement. Formerly the FW driver had a Safety Offset of 64 samples. As this one is for record and playback it's 128 samples. Now we have this one reduced to 32 (=64), but added an additional playback Safety Buffer (like in Windows) of 32 samples. So its 96 instead of 128 before, the total improvement is 32 samples less delay. I will change the readme text to make this more clear.

This is a really nice update. Almost feels like an upgrade.
I get rock solid performance in Logic with a 32 samples buffer.

Thanks!
//Eric

RME Fireface UFX
Mac Mini 2.6 GHz 16 GB Ram Areca RAID | MacBook Pro 2,2 GHz 16 GB Ram | OS 10.10.5

Re: A Few questions about the NEW Fireface 2.83 driver?

Another thing I wanted to add is that I had an problem before that when booting my MacPro in the morning, the driver would load and identify my FF800 as (AB7), when the device is actually (9B7).. or is supposed to be. Rebooting the FF solved it, but it was a bit of a pain if you didn't check to make sure the system had identified it correctly...
Seems to be completely solved since this firmware and driver update. :-)  Smiles all round!

----------------
Matt McKenzie-Smith (UFXII, UFX, Babyface) MacStudioUltra OS12.4
----------------

Re: A Few questions about the NEW Fireface 2.83 driver?

when you say you can monitor at 32 samples, what do you mean? is this teh setting in teh DAW? there is no setting like this in teh FF settings app, is there?

New Mac Pro, 16 GB RAM, Antelope Orion32, ProTools 11, UAD Octo, Tonelux OTB 16, and lots of toys...

Re: A Few questions about the NEW Fireface 2.83 driver?

Yep, I assume he means the DAW (Logic 9.1.1) preferences.

----------------
Matt McKenzie-Smith (UFXII, UFX, Babyface) MacStudioUltra OS12.4
----------------

Re: A Few questions about the NEW Fireface 2.83 driver?

For me, good job for this new driver & firmware !

MacPro 2 X 2,66 Ghz with 12 Go RAM & Fireface800 X 2 _ Digital Performer 8.07 _ Kontakt 5 _

Re: A Few questions about the NEW Fireface 2.83 driver?

MC wrote:

- New driver installation script solves problems with partial install/uninstall during driver update

I'd also like to ask a quick question:
Does the above statement mean we don't need to go through the "removing fireface driver" procedure outlined here?

-FF400-
2.53GHz MacBook Pro 10.5.8

14

Re: A Few questions about the NEW Fireface 2.83 driver?

That one should be history, yes.

Regards
Matthias Carstens
RME

Re: A Few questions about the NEW Fireface 2.83 driver?

MC wrote:

I have to do a more precise (and correct) statement. Formerly the FW driver had a Safety Offset of 64 samples. As this one is for record and playback it's 128 samples. Now we have this one reduced to 32 (=64), but added an additional playback Safety Buffer (like in Windows) of 32 samples. So its 96 instead of 128 before, [large]the total improvement is 32 samples less delay[/large]. I will change the readme text to make this more clear.

I've discovered an interesting development concerning "the total improvement is 32 samples less delay".

With driver versions 2.59 through 2.75, I consistently measured a +2 sample recording delay in Logic 7.2.3 through 9.1.1.
I measured by recording an output physically patched (with a cable) to an input. Then pan the source track hard L and the resulting patched track hard R and bounce to a stereo file. Open in the Sample Editor and count the difference in samples between L & R. I check it every time I update the Fireface 400 drivers and it's always been 2 samples late. So, in Logic's Preferences, I set the Recording Delay setting to -2 samples to compensate. Re-test and it's dead on perfect.

I just updated to driver version 2.83 with firmware 1.70 and checked the recording delay.
Now, it's 34 samples late.
It seems like 32 samples has been added to the original 2 samples that I've measured for years.
And, when I set the Recording Delay setting to -34 samples to compensate and re-test, it turns out dead on perfect.

Is this the result of the "additional playback Safety Buffer (like in Windows) of 32 samples"?
Shouldn't the driver report those 32 extra samples to Logic/Core Audio?

If not, everyone should check their recording delay and adjust if necessary.

It would be great if there was no need for the user to have to test this and perform manual compensation.

Macmini '19 3.2 GHz 6-Core i7, 32GB RAM, MacOS 10.15.2, LogicProX 10.4.8, FF400, UAD2 Satellite Octo

Re: A Few questions about the NEW Fireface 2.83 driver?

Hi,

something must be changed in the drivers 2.83 firmware 2.77
and Cubase 5.5

real loopback with cable TS Analog 1 to Analog 1 with a pulse wav playback
I have to compensate +45-46 samples in Device Setup

or Digital loopback with TotalMix then compensate -43 samples

is this correct !?

regards S-EH

17

Re: A Few questions about the NEW Fireface 2.83 driver?

Don't worry, we will check and correct this in the next days.

Regards
Matthias Carstens
RME

Re: A Few questions about the NEW Fireface 2.83 driver?

Just checked mine here and I find 32 samples delay, buts what a couple of of samples between friends eh? Just running through a few more tests to make sure really, but your number is pretty much where I'm at so it can't be coincidence. all I can say is it's a damn site better than it was with previous versions. Cheers.

*MacBookProEarly2011*13" Core i7*OSX 10.7.2 *Logic 9.1.6* 4GB RAM *FF800(3.06 / 2.77)*

19

Re: A Few questions about the NEW Fireface 2.83 driver?

Fully correct, the new changes had only been implemented completely for the UFX, the FF 400 and 800 now signalled wrong latencies (by 32 samples).

The new driver 2.84 fixes this and even improves it, should be spot on now. Please try.

Regards
Matthias Carstens
RME

Re: A Few questions about the NEW Fireface 2.83 driver?

The new driver 2.84 gives me zero samples Recording Delay in Logic 9.1.2 with FF400.
Right on the money. Great job RME!

Macmini '19 3.2 GHz 6-Core i7, 32GB RAM, MacOS 10.15.2, LogicProX 10.4.8, FF400, UAD2 Satellite Octo

Re: A Few questions about the NEW Fireface 2.83 driver?

redlogic wrote:

The new driver 2.84 gives me zero samples Recording Delay in Logic 9.1.2 with FF400.
Right on the money. Great job RME!

That is absolutely flawless, bang on with FF800 and 9.1.2. Thanks redlogic for making me look into this and thanks RME!

Cheers.

*MacBookProEarly2011*13" Core i7*OSX 10.7.2 *Logic 9.1.6* 4GB RAM *FF800(3.06 / 2.77)*

Re: A Few questions about the NEW Fireface 2.83 driver?

Minor observation: If you have limited the bandwith in the fireface settings to exclude the second ADAT connections, the mixer reflects that change with blank panels which is nice smile However, I'm sure with the previous versions this was remembered upon booting up the computer. With 2.84 I find I have to open the fireface settings (I have put it in a folder so it does not load at startup) for the mixer to once again display the correct setting (i.e. the blank panels and not a row of faders). I have tried flashing the current mixer state and also stored the settings in the FF settings but it does not seem to stick. Is this normal behaviour? I'm sure it used to work ok.

Cheers.

*MacBookProEarly2011*13" Core i7*OSX 10.7.2 *Logic 9.1.6* 4GB RAM *FF800(3.06 / 2.77)*

Re: A Few questions about the NEW Fireface 2.83 driver?

Are the new changes described in MAC drivers 2.83 also included in the Windows drivers, or are the drivers capabilities completelly different from one OS to the other?

24

Re: A Few questions about the NEW Fireface 2.83 driver?

Completely different.

Regards
Matthias Carstens
RME

25

Re: A Few questions about the NEW Fireface 2.83 driver?

DiScO wrote:

I have put it in a folder so it does not load at startup

Most probably it did not. The Settings dialog must start at boot to set the last settings. These are then taken over by TotalMix. That's why we have a launch agent,  which can not work if you move the program to an unknown location.

Regards
Matthias Carstens
RME

Re: A Few questions about the NEW Fireface 2.83 driver?

MC wrote:
DiScO wrote:

I have put it in a folder so it does not load at startup

Most probably it did not. The Settings dialog must start at boot to set the last settings. These are then taken over by TotalMix. That's why we have a launch agent,  which can not work if you move the program to an unknown location.

Which is of course fair enough! I have taken the settings app out of the folder now. Just one of those things I started doing some time ago because I didn't want it loading up every time but does it really matter if it's constantly running? No! It's hardly a drain on resources smile

Cheers.

*MacBookProEarly2011*13" Core i7*OSX 10.7.2 *Logic 9.1.6* 4GB RAM *FF800(3.06 / 2.77)*

27

Re: A Few questions about the NEW Fireface 2.83 driver?

I doubt that you will measure any resource impact for this small app. But after the start you could exit it indeed.

Regards
Matthias Carstens
RME