1 Topic by hostage (edited by hostage 2011-01-26 17:19:23)

  • Registered: 2011-01-26
  • Posts: 4

Topic: RME ADI2 - S/PDIF or ADAT

Hi all,

New to the forum so please be kind.

I've been searching high and low for a good adc.

I think I've decided to go for the RME ADI2. I've also looked at the Konnect 24D (rubbish drivers supposedly), M-Audio 610, Mytek Stero 192ADC, EMU 404, Cakewalk FA 66.

The reason I'm looking, is that I have 10,000 records (vinyl), quite a lot of them rare and unavailable on CD. I also want to transfer them as 24/192 (overkill maybe, but I want the best quality as I only want to do them once then archive them. I can then convert them to whatever level I want whether for cd or playback using the computer).

Obviously, if you have any other recommendations or links to threads that would be good.

I'm also a bit baffled by the differences between S/PDIF and ADAT. I've read on a lot of sites that ADAT can only transfer at 48khz. Is that right?

Also are these two (S/PDIF and ADAT) better than Firewire and USB 2.0?

I have Technics 1210's that have phono cables. Would there be any resistence of sorts if I add XLR adapters to the phono ends. I am quite anal about quality of sound so that is important.

Anyway, and help, guidance or pointers would be greatly appreciated.

  • Jeff
  • Jeff
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Re: RME ADI2 - S/PDIF or ADAT

Hi, thanks for considering RME. A few thoughts.

First, ADI-2 is not sound card, it's a stand alone AD/DA converter. It seems like you need a sound card. Please take a look a the new Babyface. It will perform as well as the ADI-2 in terms of converter quality, and the drivers are excellent for PC or Intel Mac.

Second, you need a proper phono preamp for the turntable. Do a search for RIAA preamp. I'm sure you can find one with XLR outs that will connect to the Babyface input (or ADI-2).

Regards,
Jeff Petersen
Synthax Inc.

Jeff's Website

3 Reply by hostage (edited by hostage 2011-01-26 17:55:37)

  • Registered: 2011-01-26
  • Posts: 4

Re: RME ADI2 - S/PDIF or ADAT

I have a souncard - M-Audio 24/92 - but that obviously won't record at 192khz.

You think I'm best with an external sound card and a pre-amp (can you suggest any top quality ones? Or is it the sound card that will do most of the work?).

The Babyface. That connects through USB? Will USB be ok for recording at 24/192?

Cheers

  • From: Germany
  • Registered: 2007-04-10
  • Posts: 9,776

Re: RME ADI2 - S/PDIF or ADAT

Yes, the BF will happily do 24/192 via USB 2.0.


Regards
Daniel Fuchs
RME

Regards
Daniel Fuchs
RME

RME Support's Website

  • Knut
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Re: RME ADI2 - S/PDIF or ADAT

The Babyface. That connects through USB? Will USB be ok for recording at 24/192?

Yes. If you don´t need more than 50 channels with 24/192 at the same time.

best regards
Knut

  • Registered: 2011-01-26
  • Posts: 4

Re: RME ADI2 - S/PDIF or ADAT

Thanks for the replies!

No, I won't be needing more than 50 channels at the moment. Just the 1. Maybe in my next project, but that's another day.

Any ideas on a good pre-amp? It's all dance music vinyls I'll be converting so one that has excellent bass, very clear mid and excellent top end.

Cheers

  • Knut
  • Knut
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Re: RME ADI2 - S/PDIF or ADAT

Any ideas on a good pre-amp? It's all dance music vinyls I'll be converting so one that has excellent bass, very clear mid and excellent top end.

As Jeff wrote before, keep in mind you don´t need a mic preamp but a RIAA phono preamp for vinyl recording. Records sound different without correcting the special frequency compensation curve of a turntable player. But maybe you listen already to your vinyl collection via a preamp with built-in RIAA curve correction before your monitors. In this case you can plug the outputs of this peamp to the inputs of the Babyface. If your preamp provides unbalanced phono outputs (RCA) you should use the optional unbalanced breakout cable for the Babyface.

best regards
Knut

  • vinark
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Re: RME ADI2 - S/PDIF or ADAT

If by any chance you have a domestic amp with phono input or a DJ mixer, those will do fine as a phono preamp. (In fact anything you normally play your vinyl with) just connect the output of the mixer or the recording/tape output of the amp to the ADI2
Yes ofcourse a high end phono preamp might be even better, but then you would need some exotic turntable and element too (you can ofcourse make it as expensive as you want). IMHO recording the ADI2 @96khz will give excellent results.
If you do want 192Khz the babyface is a great choice!
If you have more questions feel free to ask!
Vincent

Vincent, Amsterdam
https://soundcloud.com/thesecretworld
BFpro fs, 2X HDSP9652 ADI-8AE, 2X HDSP9632
  • Registered: 2011-01-26
  • Posts: 4

Re: RME ADI2 - S/PDIF or ADAT

Thanks for all the advice and help.

After doing a lot more reading, I need to start at the beginning, starting with a good Record Cleaning Machine. No point recording records that are dirty and have dirt or dust deep in the grooves.

Then I'm going to rewire the phone cables in my Technics to high end cables.

A good pre-amp with RIAA is next. I do have a mixer that will do the job, but I think it's on it's last legs with there being a lot of background noise.

Then the soundcard, which the Babyface sounds ideal.

After that it will be onto archiving, which take me a while!!!

Thanks again

10 Reply by yetti7 (edited by yetti7 2011-04-07 00:57:12)

  • Registered: 2011-04-02
  • Posts: 3

Re: RME ADI2 - S/PDIF or ADAT

Hi hostage,

after using sound cards from EMU, M-Audio etc i finally spent money and got BABYFACE and it is far best sound from my Technics 1200mk2
1.) downside of Babyface - input gain control has first step set to +9dB what is big jump, let's hope new version of TOTALMIX will fix this problem
2.) noise level from 200 Hz up is steady at -120dB, what is fantastic, bellow 200Hz comes noise from electrical system itself, and unless you run all your toys (incl. Technics) on batteries, it will be there
so overall noise level in my case is -80dB when tonearm is in resting position and only way how to take it down is using some plug in "De-HUM" after recording is done
3.) recording your files at 24bit192kHz will not make any good to you, if you are recording at 24bit48kHz (let's call it 32bit float/ 48kHz) that is same quality as any MASTER TAPE from old recording studio back in vinyl days about 5 min of audio will be 100mb file....if you jump only to 24bit96kHz all your recordings will sound way too bright, because sound from 1kHz up is recorded at about +6dB (or so) and you are recording above 22kHz, what will make your file double size (btw any audio freak is happy with sound range 20Hz-22kHz)....in other words, recording at 96kHz and 192kHz will destroy your RIAA curve
[Moderator's comment: This statement is technically incorrect. See below for details]
4.) if you want better quality for your sound, try to find out what soft can run at 64bit instead of only 32bit (maybe new Audition 4 will have it, maybe last WAVELAB or SOUNDFORGE have it
5.) vinyl cleaning - search youtube or check needledoctor website - best selection of cleaners etc.

any other questions.....

  • Jeff
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Re: RME ADI2 - S/PDIF or ADAT

Hi Yetti,

Thanks for the nice compliment about the Babyface. Unfortunately, there is some questionable info in your post. For your benefit, and the benefit of others reading this thread I will answer your points.

yetti7 wrote:

1.) downside of Babyface - input gain control has fist step set to +9dB what is big jump, let's hope new version of TOTALMIX will fix this problem

The gain should be adjusted at the phono preamp (when possible) so you have good levels with Babyface input gain at 0. Otherwise you are engaging the Mic Preamp, which is exactly why gain starts at +10db and goes up from there.

2.) noise level from 200 Hz up is steady at -120dB, what is fantastic, bellow 200Hz comes noise from electrical system itself, and unless you run all your toys (incl. Technics) on batteries, it will be there
so overall noise level in my case is -80dB when tonearm is in resting position and only way how to take it down is using some plug in "De-HUM" after recording is done

The noise does not come from the Babyface. The noise floor for the device is quite a bit lower. Proper gain staging as explained above may help.

3.) recording your files at 24bit192kHz will not make any good to you, if you are recording at 24bit48kHz (let's call it 32bit float/ 48kHz) that is same quality as any MASTER TAPE from old recording studio back in vinyl days about 5 min of audio will be 100mb file....if you jump only to 24bit96kHz all your recordings will sound way too bright, because sound from 1kHz up is recorded at about +6dB (or so) and you are recording above 22kHz, what will make your file double size (btw any audio freak is happy with sound range 20Hz-22kHz)....in other words, recording at 96kHz and 192kHz will destroy your RIAA curve

The benefit of higher SR in this context is debatable. The frequency range is extended at higher sample rates, but there is no boost in the upper register. 24-bit is fine for capture, any sample rate you like is suitable - you can always SRC down to a lower rate.

4.) if you want better quality for your sound, try to find out what soft can run at 64bit instead of only 32bit (maybe new Audition 4 will have it, maybe last WAVELAB or SOUNDFORGE have it

HeadScratch

32-bit vs 64-bit OS and software has absolutely no relation to the audio file. Virtual instruments, large projects with lots of plugins, etc. will find some benefit to the extra RAM available in a 64-bit OS, but a stereo capture? No way.

Regards,
Jeff Petersen
Synthax Inc.

Jeff's Website

  • Registered: 2011-04-02
  • Posts: 3

Re: RME ADI2 - S/PDIF or ADAT

Hi Jeff,
that was quick response.....

as i said - Babyface is the BEST what i had so far, and i will try to keep it short because it goes of main topic

most of turntable preamps don't have adjustable output gain, so it would be wonderful, maybe even beneficial for Babyface if input gain knob was more sensitive (maybe 1db increments)

2.) it does not say Babyface is generator of noise, whole set up is at -80dB and it starts with turntable (direct drive), that level just travel via Babyface to final recording (as far as Babyface S/N ratio goes = Fantastic)

3.) have done too many tests, and there is no reason to record from vinyl at higher than 24bit/48kHz,
most likely MIDI files are different story, again - there is no boost by Babyface itself, most likely that boost is done by recording/mastering soft at the end of chain
recording sound from 22kHz all the way up to 40Khz might have benefit for dolphins, but any human should be more than happy with in 20Hz-22kHz.....

4.) right now it's 32bit(float)/48kHz/96kHz/etc or in simple language 24bit/48kHz, are you sure we won't see anytime soon 64bit(float)/48kHz in reality 48bit/48kHz  ?....digital evolution goes pretty fast forward

BTW - i was waiting for something like BABYFACE since DUET came out and now DUET owners are getting jealous that Babyface is better wink