• alanb
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Topic: RayDAT instead of ReWire on a 64-bit PC?

Hi everybody, I'm new here... [waves hello]...

I'm THIS CLOSE to buying an RME RayDAT, but I've been unable to get a straight answer to a couple of important questions, and I'd rather not spend $850 on a hunch... can you help me?

———————————————

I am setting up a brand new PC, running Windows 7 Pro (64-bit).

I want to run, among other things, Cubase (64-bit) and GigaStudio 4 (64-bit) on the same machine.

———————————————

In order for GS4 to run on a 64-bit machine, I need a sound card with GSIF 2.1 drivers.  I was told that the RayDAT does, but I'm not sure. Does it?  Do any of the other RME cards?

———————————————

The next problem is how to get GS4's audio into Cubase when there is no 64-bit ReWire.

According to the RME RayDAT website, "[f]or the first time, even SPDIF (phono) and AES/EBU (XLR) are simultaneously operational due to separated hardware and record/playback devices. "

Does that mean that I'll be able to use Cubase (64-bit) and GS4 (64-bit) on the same 64-bit machine, using just the RayDAT, even though there's no 64-bit Rewire?

This would probably (?) require separate "record/playback devices" being able to load separate drivers simultaneously (i.e., ASIO for Cubase and GSIF for GigaStudio).

I envision piping GS4's audio to one of the RayDAT's outputs and routing that, through a different one of the RayDAT's inputs, into Cubase...

...and then sending everything through one of the RayDAT's ADAT/TDIF outputs into my MOTU 2408mk3 (currently in a different computer) and out the studio monitors.

Does that make any sense?

I suppose I could also try sticking both the RayDAT and the MOTU (which is also PCIe-based) in the same machine, if necessary.  Would that work if the above "vision" doesn't?

If neither of those ideas would work... do any RME products exist with which I could set this up properly?

Thank you thank you thank you so very much!!

  — Alan

alanb's Website

2 Reply by vinark (edited by vinark 2011-02-07 21:52:57)

  • vinark
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Re: RayDAT instead of ReWire on a 64-bit PC?

Yes it would work, as long as gigastudio 4 runs on Win 7 64 bit (I have never tried nor heard of this, isn´t it discontinued?). And you would need to get midi into gigastudio too some way.
Another solution would be to run gigastudio on your old computer (the one with the motu).

Vincent, Amsterdam
https://soundcloud.com/thesecretworld
BFpro fs, 2X HDSP9652 ADI-8AE, 2X HDSP9632
  • alanb
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Re: RayDAT instead of ReWire on a 64-bit PC?

Hey vinark,

Thanks for the response.

MIDI would be coming into GigaStudio from two sources:

(1) from Cubase, and

(2) from an external MIDI patchbay.

According to the RME website, the RayDAT has "2 MIDI I/Os," although I'm not sure which of the jacks in the stock photo are for MIDI:

[img align=C]http://www.rme-audio.de/images/products/products_hdspe_raydat_2b.jpg[/img]

I guess that raises the next question, which is how I would route MIDI from those two sources to Giga through the RayDAT?

Continued thanks!!

alanb's Website

  • Jeff
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Re: RayDAT instead of ReWire on a 64-bit PC?

MIDI I/Os are on a pigtail, it connect to the DIN port on the daughter card.

Regards,
Jeff Petersen
Synthax Inc.

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  • alanb
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Re: RayDAT instead of ReWire on a 64-bit PC?

Hey Jeff,

Ah, the pigtail... that must be the "MIDI breakout cable (BOHDSP9652MIDI)" that I see on the RME website.  Does that come included with the RayDAT, or is that a separate purchase?

That should take care of the external MIDI patch bay.

—————

For the internal MIDI...  On my current setup, when I have MIDI tracks in Cubase, I merely select a Giga4 port for the "MIDI Out."

I should still be able to do that... shouldn't I?

—————

Thanks again, Jeff... you've been a great help!!

alanb's Website

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Re: RayDAT instead of ReWire on a 64-bit PC?

The MIDI cable is included.


Regards
Daniel Fuchs
RME

Regards
Daniel Fuchs
RME

RME Support's Website

  • vinark
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Re: RayDAT instead of ReWire on a 64-bit PC?

No no midi to giga not without rewire that´s why I said that. But have you thought about running cubase  as 32 bit under win7 64? Then rewire will work (if gigastudio does). Both cubase and giga will have 4gb of address space then.

Vincent, Amsterdam
https://soundcloud.com/thesecretworld
BFpro fs, 2X HDSP9652 ADI-8AE, 2X HDSP9632
  • alanb
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Re: RayDAT instead of ReWire on a 64-bit PC?

Hi vinark,

I was afraid that you'd come back to say that.....

Yes, I had thought about running Cubase as 32-bit, but (1) Giga — even 32-bit Giga — will not install on a 64-bit machine, and (2) I would prefer to take advantage of the additional memory addressing and whatever other performance enhancements I'll enjoy in the 64-bit realm.

So there's really no way... even with the RayDAT's 2 MIDI I/Os... to get MIDI from Cubase to Giga on one machine?

alanb's Website

  • vinark
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Re: RayDAT instead of ReWire on a 64-bit PC?

Ofcourse there is; with a physical midi loopback (one raydat out back to in again and there might be software loopback software available too).

Vincent, Amsterdam
https://soundcloud.com/thesecretworld
BFpro fs, 2X HDSP9652 ADI-8AE, 2X HDSP9632
  • alanb
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Re: RayDAT instead of ReWire on a 64-bit PC?

Okay, so... if that's the case, then a RayDAT should take care of all of my MIDI and audio needs, all on one machine and all in 64-bit...

...which is why you confused me, above, when you wrote "no midi to giga not without rewire," and suggested that I consider "running cubase as 32 bit."

If a RayDAT will handle everything, then that's what I'll get.

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  • alanb
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Re: RayDAT instead of ReWire on a 64-bit PC?

Will this setup (Cubase ---> MIDI Out 1 ---> MIDI In 2 ---> Giga4 ---> Audio Out 1 ---> Audio In 2 ---> Cubase) introduce significant latency?

Will the latency be greater than, say, what I would get from running Giga on a separate 32-bit machine and setting up a MIDIOverLAN connection (or something similar) between the two computers?

Thanks again for all of this useful input!!

alanb's Website

  • vinark
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Re: RayDAT instead of ReWire on a 64-bit PC?

No, latency will roughly be the same. Audio latency is dependent on your buffer setting. Midi latency will be low in playback and a little bit higher when you do live playing if you go through cubase.
You are aware that if you use a physical midi cable for the loopback you are limited to  1 port and 16 channels?
So if you need more a separate midi interface with 4 ins and outs would be a solution.

How dependent are you on Giga? Since it is no longer developed there will be no solutions if you ever run into problems. A new machine might be a time for thinking about other solution too, like importing in Kontakt or this http://www.soundlib.com/gplayer/ ?

Vincent, Amsterdam
https://soundcloud.com/thesecretworld
BFpro fs, 2X HDSP9652 ADI-8AE, 2X HDSP9632

13 Reply by alanb (edited by alanb 2011-02-08 17:02:45)

  • alanb
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Re: RayDAT instead of ReWire on a 64-bit PC?

Thank you vinark, this is all very helpful.


vinark wrote:

You are aware that if you use a physical midi cable for the loopback you are limited to  1 port and 16 channels?
So if you need more a separate midi interface with 4 ins and outs would be a solution.

Oh, that's no good.  I've got Giga instrumental templates that fill 4 ports @ 16 channels.

But wait... I have a rackmounted MOTU MIDI Express XT (8 ins, 8 outs).  Up until now, it's just been used to route external keyboards into the computer.

Can it be configured so that I can have individual MIDI tracks in Cubase trigger Giga samples on multiple MIDI ports/channels?


vinark wrote:

How dependent are you on Giga? Since it is no longer developed there will be no solutions if you ever run into problems. A new machine might be a time for thinking about other solution too, like importing in Kontakt or this http://www.soundlib.com/gplayer/ ?

Sadly, Giga can't go away.  It would cost too many thousands of dollars to replace my orchestral (and other) libraries.

Would rather not go the separate computer route, if it can be avoided...

Importing into Kontakt isn't a viable solution, for various technical reasons.

Luckily, GS4 has been wonderfully stable (I was a GS4/GVI4 beta tester until the day that TASCAM pulled the plug).  For this reason (among others), I'm not interested G-Player.

alanb's Website

  • vinark
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Re: RayDAT instead of ReWire on a 64-bit PC?

If your motu midi works under Win7 you will be fine. But I think you will still need to loopback, unless it is possible in the motu software.

Vincent, Amsterdam
https://soundcloud.com/thesecretworld
BFpro fs, 2X HDSP9652 ADI-8AE, 2X HDSP9632

15 Reply by alanb (edited by alanb 2011-02-08 20:12:52)

  • alanb
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Re: RayDAT instead of ReWire on a 64-bit PC?

vinark wrote:

If your motu midi works under Win7 you will be fine.

According to the MOTU website, the current software install includes "interface drivers for Windows 7."


vinark wrote:

But I think you will still need to loopback, unless it is possible in the motu software.

I'm sorry, but I'm not sure what you mean.

The MIDI Express comes with "Clockworks" routing software, described at https://s3.amazonaws.com/motu/manuals/m … de_Win.pdf on pp. 25 et seq..  There's a picture of the interface on p. 26.

Are you saying that if I assign Cubase MIDI in/out and Giga MIDI in/out to specific "devices" in this routing matrix, then I'll be able to have multiple individual MIDI tracks in Cubase trigger Giga samples on multiple MIDI ports/channels?

Continued thanks!!

alanb's Website

  • vinark
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Re: RayDAT instead of ReWire on a 64-bit PC?

Yes! AFAICS without having the motu here, you can indeed use the clockwork software to connect the ports. You can even name them giga 1 etc in cubase in the midi devices setup somewhere.
The RME will be a good choice for the audio, best low latency drivers ever.

Hope it all works as expected!

You are lucky, all my older midi interfaces, an emagic MT4 and steinberg midex 3 never got 64 bit drivers and are now collecting dust.....
Luckily the rme midi ports are really good and sufficient for my now modest midi needs. Mostly VSTi´s nowadays.

Vincent, Amsterdam
https://soundcloud.com/thesecretworld
BFpro fs, 2X HDSP9652 ADI-8AE, 2X HDSP9632
  • Registered: 2008-04-23
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Re: RayDAT instead of ReWire on a 64-bit PC?

Hi Alan,

For what it's worth i have GS4 64 bit running on Win 7 Ultimate, and my virtual midi patch bay is "Loopbe".
I just use the free one which is compatible with 64 bit and 16 channels, but you could use "loopbe30" which i think does at least 30 channels, could be more.
I use a Fireface 800, and run "Trilian, and Native Instruments B4ii as VSTi, had some problems with Jbridge on the B4ii, but all ok now.
What you are trying to do is beyond my scope, but just thought you would like to know that GS4 does work 64 bit with RME

cheers
Bryan

Sager Laptop Intel quad 2.8
Win 7 Ult 64 bt
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  • alanb
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Re: RayDAT instead of ReWire on a 64-bit PC?

Bryan:  I'm assumin' you are the Bryan that I wrote to on NSS last week?  I'm glad to hear that GS4 is behaving on Win7x64.  I'm sure that there will be other difficulties (there always are with our beloved Giga), but I can't argue with the sounds that come out of it.....

Thanks again, everybody.  I think I'm ready to take the plunge.....

alanb's Website