1 Topic by alanb (edited by alanb 2011-02-21 08:40:55)

  • alanb
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Topic: How can I route to the GSIF MIDI ports?

Hey everyone... still trying to get the new RayDAT to work with Cubase 5.5 (64-bit) and GigaStudio 4 (64-bit) on a Win7 (64-bit) machine.

Here's what's weird right now:

I am able to select "RayDAT (1) Midi In 1/2 - (GSIF - low latency)" from the various MIDI ports that appear in GigaStudio:

[img align=L]http://alanb.org/RME/MIDI_Ports_in_GS4.jpg[/img]

[the "MXPXT" ports belong to an external MOTU MIDI patch bay, and are not relevant to this problem]

When I try to assign a MIDI Out port to a MIDI track in Cubase, I do not see "RayDAT (1) Midi In 1/2 - (GSIF - low latency)" ...

... although Cubase does allows me to select "RayDAT Midi Port 1/2" (see below), I assume that the "GSIF - low latency" ports would be preferable... Where are they?:

[img align=L]http://alanb.org/RME/Cubase_-_MIDI_Ports_In_MIDI_Track.jpg[/img]

Notice, too, that Cubase allows me to select "Giga4: Port 1 / Control" as the MIDI out for the MIDI track — this was the output that I had always selected up until now (using REWIRE on my old 32-bit machine).

Now, however, the minute I select select "Giga4: Port 1 / Control," I get a little error message saying that GS4 crashed and would try to repair itself.... GS4 will then continue to work, and I can actually trigger samples in GS4 with MIDI notes from Cubase.

When I try to shut down or reboot the computer, however, the RME driver crashes so badly that the card is no longer seen in the Windows Device Manager when the computer reboots... although the "DSP Settings" and "DSP Mixer" icons remain in the system tray and can be launched.  Just before writing this post, I sat for several minutes watching the RayDAT appear and disappear over and over in my Device Manager... then the computer blue-screened when I tried to shut it down.

What's going on here?

Two other weird things about this... if I look in Cubase's "MIDI Port Setup," I see "RayDAT Midi Port 1/2," but I don't see "RayDAT (1) Midi In 1/s - (GSIF - low latency)":

[img align=L]http://alanb.org/RME/Cubase_-_MIDI_Port_Setup.jpg[/img]

And I can't figure out how to make the Giga4 ports "active"... I assume that this has something to do with Giga crashing when I select them...  Any idea what's happening here?

Ditto when I look in the RME TotalMix Preferences — I see "RayDAT Midi Port 1/2," but I don't see "RayDAT (1) Midi In 1/2 - (GSIF - low latency)":

[img align=L]http://alanb.org/RME/MIDI_Ports_-_TotalMix_Preferences.jpg[/img]

Why is that?

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  • alanb
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Re: How can I route to the GSIF MIDI ports?

So I guess that I have two main questions here:

(1)  Where are the "GSIF - low latency" ports, and why won't Cubase see them?

(2)  How can I, for example route MIDI out from Cubase into "RayDAT (1) Midi In 1 - (GSIF - low latency)" and then route the MIDI out from the external MIDI patch bay to "RayDAT (1) Midi In 2 - (GSIF - low latency)""

For question (2), is there a way to route the MIDI using TotalMix, or do I have to find some sort of "Virtual MIDI cable" to connect everything?  If the latter, can anyone recommend a "Virtual MIDI cable" that will do what I need and run on a Win7 x64 machine?

HUGE THANKS!!

  — Alan

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Re: How can I route to the GSIF MIDI ports?

1) Cubase doesn't support GSIF, so it will neither see the ports nor would it profit in any way...
2) There is no way to route MIDI in Totalmix, and what is the purpose of such a virtual connection?


Regards
Daniel Fuchs
RME

Regards
Daniel Fuchs
RME

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  • alanb
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Re: How can I route to the GSIF MIDI ports?

Hi Daniel,

The goal here is to get Cubase to trigger samples in Giga.

I used to be able to do that (using REWIRE on my old 32-bit machine) by selecting "Giga4: Port 1 / Control" as the MIDI out for the first Cubase MIDI track... but when I do that now, Giga crashes (as described above).

So, I need to find a new way to connect Cubase's MIDI Out to Giga's MIDI in.

I assumed that the GSIF MIDI ports would be able to do that... what else can GSIF MIDI ports do besides route MIDI signals into Giga?

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Re: How can I route to the GSIF MIDI ports?

Sorry, didn't read the above closely enough, I guess... And I'm not very familiar with Rewire.

Since you say Cubase doesn't even see the Giga ports, when does Giga crash?

Regards
Daniel Fuchs
RME

Regards
Daniel Fuchs
RME

RME Support's Website

  • alanb
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Re: How can I route to the GSIF MIDI ports?

Hi Daniel,

You don't have to be familiar with REWIRE, as it doesn't exist in 64-bit yet...   :-)

This whole problem for me is finding a way to connect Cubase and Giga on a 64-bit machine... like I used to be able to do with REWIRE on my old 32-bit machine.

Giga crashes instantly when I select "Giga4: Port 1 / Control" as the output for a MIDI track in Cubase.

As I wrote above, Giga "recovers" enough to keep working... and I can even select additional Giga4 ports on other MIDI tracks:

(e.g., "Giga4: Port 1 / Control, Channel 2/3/4/5/6/7/8" or "Giga4: Port 2, Channel 1/2/3/4/5/6/7/8")

But as soon as I try to shut down or reboot, the RME driver crashes and it takes 2-3 successive reboots to successfully re-install the driver and start over again...

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  • alanb
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Re: How can I route to the GSIF MIDI ports?

Cubase technically "sees" the Giga4 ports (they are visible in the second image above)...

But, in Cubase's MIDI Port Setup screen (third image), they are all listed as "inactive."

I have no idea how to make them "active."

I wonder if that has something to do with the crashing...

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8 Reply by alanb (edited by alanb 2011-02-21 09:13:09)

  • alanb
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Re: How can I route to the GSIF MIDI ports?

BTW, if I select "RayDAT Midi Port 1" as the MIDI out for the MIDI track in Cubase, and select "RayDAT Midi Port 1" as the MIDI in for Giga4, it doesn't work — the MIDI notes in Cubase do not trigger the samples in Giga.

It seems that only selecting "Giga4: Port 1 / Control" as the output for the MIDI track in Cubase works... but that always causes the Giga crash followed by the RME driver crash...  :-(

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9 Reply by MC

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Re: How can I route to the GSIF MIDI ports?

First of all you have to make sure that both programs use different channels and the same sample rate. I see that you have selected GSIF on channels 3/4. So did you disable everything except channels 1/2 in the VST Connections (F4)?

Set the MIDI ports in TotalMix back to 'None'!

The card's low latency MIDI inputs can not be accessed directly from Cubase. You need to route a MIDI cable from an output to that input to send notes.

Regarding the internal (virtual) control port: it either causes crashing because you selected identical channels for audio in both programs, or because they are incompatible. The latter would mean to ask in a Steinberg or Giga forum, as this is not related to the used driver/hardware.

In other words: to get this thing running and clear the problems first let Cubase use a card's output and cable out to in and let Giga use the low latency input.

Regards
Matthias Carstens
RME

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  • vinark
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Re: How can I route to the GSIF MIDI ports?

We talked about this before and I´m 100% sure that your best option is to use the motu and it´s patchbay. What you are trying to do is and should be impossible, although I understand why you would like it to work, if it would, it would cause more problems then you realise (midi feedback for instance which will crash your computer in a milisecond).
So select a motu midi out in cubase a motu midi in giga and connect them using the motu patch-bay utility. Very elegant solution in my opinion.

Vincent, Amsterdam
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  • alanb
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Re: How can I route to the GSIF MIDI ports?

Hi Matthias,

MC wrote:

First of all you have to make sure that both programs use different channels and the same sample rate. I see that you have selected GSIF on channels 3/4. So did you disable everything except channels 1/2 in the VST Connections (F4)?

My only inputs/outputs (Cubase F4) are:

Left --->  RayDAT ADAT 1
Right --->  RayDAT ADAT 2

No "Presets" were selected.


MC wrote:

Set the MIDI ports in TotalMix back to 'None'!

Okay, under Preferences, where it says "MIDI Controllers ---> MIDI Input" and "MIDI Controllers ---> MIDI Output" I have changed it so that both are now blank.

MC wrote:

The card's low latency MIDI inputs can not be accessed directly from Cubase. You need to route a MIDI cable from an output to that input to send notes.

Can I set it up something like:

Cubase ---> "RayDAT Midi Port 1 (out)" ---> "RayDAT (1) Midi In 1 - [GSIF - low latency]" ---> GigaStudio?

MC wrote:

Regarding the internal (virtual) control port: it either causes crashing because you selected identical channels for audio in both programs, or because they are incompatible. The latter would mean to ask in a Steinberg or Giga forum, as this is not related to the used driver/hardware.

In other words: to get this thing running and clear the problems first let Cubase use a card's output and cable out to in and let Giga use the low latency input.

The only card that I have is the RayDAT... which is the only card with GSIF 2.1 drivers which will allow Giga to run on a 64-bit machine.

How can I wire things using just the RayDAT?

I also have an external (8-in, 8-out) MIDI patchbay, which I could use if necessary... but will the additional 20 feet of MIDI cables add to latency?

Thanks thanks thanks!!

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  • alanb
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Re: How can I route to the GSIF MIDI ports?

INTERESTING DEVELOPMENT:

I downloaded and installed the trial version of LoopBe30.

I can now select "Giga4: Port 1 / Control" in a Cubase MIDI track without crashing either Giga or the RME driver.

MIDI notes in Cubase are now triggering samples in Giga.  Voilà!

However, when I used Cubase's "Export" function to export the output from the three MIDI tracks to an audio file, (something that I could always do with no problem), I get three minutes of silence... which is at the very least preferable to having Cubase hanging and then the RME driver crashing, which is what happened yesterday when I tried to Export to an audio file...

So, i'm still not sure what's wrong here, and I may still try going the route suggested by vinark:

Cubase --->  MOTU In ---> MOTU Out ---> "RayDAT (1) Midi In 1 - [GSIF - low latency]"

I have a hazy recollection that MIDI cables are supposed to be kept as short as possible... in this case, out of necessity, each MIDI cable will have to be at least ten feet long.  Will the 20+ feet of MIDI cable introduce any noticeable delays in the MIDI notes if I'm playing a piece in Cubase that has both audio and MIDI tracks?

Thanks again, everyone — I am so grateful for all of your assistance and insight!!

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  • vinark
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Re: How can I route to the GSIF MIDI ports?

If it works no need to go the motu route. I wasn´t aware of a Loopbe30. I´m sure that porting in the audio from giga to cubase needs an other way of thinking then rewire. They are now audio channels. Make sure you are listening to them through cubase and not totalmix.

Vincent, Amsterdam
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14 Reply by MC

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Re: How can I route to the GSIF MIDI ports?

alanb wrote:

Can I set it up something like:

Cubase ---> "RayDAT Midi Port 1 (out)" ---> "RayDAT (1) Midi In 1 - [GSIF - low latency]" ---> GigaStudio?

... but will the additional 20 feet of MIDI cables add to latency?

Yes.

No.

Regards
Matthias Carstens
RME

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15 Reply by alanb (edited by alanb 2011-02-22 18:16:06)

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Re: How can I route to the GSIF MIDI ports?

@MC:  Great news!!

@vinark:  You're absolutely right about the audio... I'm hearing the Giga samples but I presume only because they're playing through channels A1+3/4, while Cubase's audio is playing through channels A1+1/2.  So when I try to export the MIDI tracks to an audio file, Cubase "hears" nothing and all I have is an empty audio file. 

So................. How, using the RayDAT's impressive routing capabilities, do I get Giga's audio output into Cubase?

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  • vinark
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Re: How can I route to the GSIF MIDI ports?

This is on page 61 of the raydat manual. I have never used it up until now.
I think setting up de raydat will be easy, but setting up cubase a little more complicated. You have different options to do roughly the same thing and it´s very dependent on what you exactly want/neeed how you set it up. If possible I would wait with importing into cubase untill a piece is finished and only either import the giga tracks or even record the complete mix of cubase and giga, but there are a lot of other options too.

Vincent, Amsterdam
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