Topic: Hammerfall DSP MADI IDE HDD Track count

Hi guys ,
Im looking at putting together a Madi system for live recording through digico and compatible soundcraft desks.

I have an old Intel P4 2.4 Ghz (PCI) with 4 gigs of ram and a extra internal 7200 rpm IDE HDD to record audio on.
My main question is this computer with a Hammerfall DSP MADI powerful enough to record 64 tracks at 24 bit 48k for long periods up to 90 Min. Windows 98 sp 2 operating system.

Are there any advantages of going for a HDSPe MADI PCI express card and buying a new computer Pci express compatible.

Any advice would be great. The Madi format is new to me.

Thanks Tony

Re: Hammerfall DSP MADI IDE HDD Track count

My main question is this computer with a Hammerfall DSP MADI powerful enough to record 64 tracks at 24 bit 48k for long periods up to 90 Min.

This should be no problem from the pure hardware specs. Most notebooks with lower power can handle this (e.g. the Depeche Mode World Tour with 2 x notebooks and MADIface).

Windows 98 sp 2 operating system.

You need at least Windows XP (see driver support).

Are there any advantages of going for a HDSPe MADI PCI express card and buying a new computer Pci express compatible.

A new and powerful computer plus PCI express is a good - but more expensive - choice. If you want to upgrade your system after some time, you need a board with at least one PCI slot for the HDSP MADI. This could be a problem, if you want to use something special, like a Mac Pro.

If you choose the HDSPe MADI you have a future proof solution. Differences of the HDSPe MADI to the PCI MADI card:
    * PCI Express interface
    * Sample rates up to 192 kHz
    * Even lower latencies
    * Enhanced TotalMix
    * Monitor output with low-latency converter technology of ADI-8 QS
    * Direct support of HDSP TCO

The Madi format is new to me.

The MADI format is nothing special, but a very powerful digital multitrack connection with some useful enhancements, done by RME (like MIDI over MADI and remote control). For the desktop computer or notebook it´s just an audio card with more I/Os than usual.

best regards
Knut

Re: Hammerfall DSP MADI IDE HDD Track count

Great thanks for the quick reply Knut.

Tony

Re: Hammerfall DSP MADI IDE HDD Track count

Admin Knut wrote:

If you choose the HDSPe MADI you have a future proof solution. Differences of the HDSPe MADI to the PCI MADI card:
    * Even lower latencies

Knut

Is this the official stance on this?  Everytime I hear someone ask about PCI vs PCIe and RME's "Even lower latency" advertising copy, RME's response has always been the latency will be identical unless some other PCI or PCIe limitation is present in the system.

I think this advertising copy should be better qualified/quantified if you are speaking of PCIe bus latency that won't have any real-world effect on bottom-line ASIO latency.  It is incredibly misleading unless you are actually talking about ASIO latency IMNSHO.  I understand the Advertising dept likes to make things sound as good as possible in the product literature and advertising copy - but concise unambiguous info is always the best bet as far as the consumer is concerned (if you want an informed consumer)...

Thanks for any clarification and possible elaboration of this lingering point (elaboration in the literature and ad copy - not just on this forum wink .

cool

MADIface-XT+ARC / 3x HDSP MADI / ADI648
2x SSL Alphalink MADI AX
2x Multiface / 2x Digiface /2x ADI8

5

Re: Hammerfall DSP MADI IDE HDD Track count

Well, Knut IS the advertising department... :-)

Regards
Matthias Carstens
RME

Re: Hammerfall DSP MADI IDE HDD Track count

Admin Knut wrote:

If you choose the HDSPe MADI you have a future proof solution. Differences of the HDSPe MADI to the PCI MADI card:
    * Even lower latencies

Knut

So is this talking about ASIO latency the end-user will appreciate, or PCIe bus related latency that the end-user would never even know about (as RME seems to say here again and again)?  "Open-ended/leading" ad copy is dangerous at best, and deceptive at worst...

Words matter, and "accidentally" misleading the consumers is something that needs to be resolved now that the "accident" has been brought to light.  If this is intentional marketing ambiguity - then shame on you!

The fact that you mention that the HDSPe series don't use a PCI>PCIe Bridge Chip is sufficient - no need to add the leading "Even Lower Latencies" copy unless you are actually talking about ASIO (and you aren't).  Anytime the generic term "Latency" is tossed around when talking about a LOW LATENCY AUDIO INTERFACE - it's assumed "Latency" means "Usable Audio Latency" unless otherwise specified - and I think that is blatantly obvious.  Not everyone that buys an RME card is a PC guru (I'd wager most aren't, and have no idea how ASIO latency is different from PCIe bus latency).

Clarification is welcomed - and I hope any clarifications make it into the Ad Copy and product literature to keep the consumers ACCURATELY informed w/o misleading anyone.


Can you tell these kind of advertising practices strike a nerve with me? ed:  The time to save face (and learn for these mistakes) is now.  Water under the bridge or a mammoth flood on the horizon - the ball is in your court.  I know RME will do the right thing and keep their customers accurately informed...


cool

MADIface-XT+ARC / 3x HDSP MADI / ADI648
2x SSL Alphalink MADI AX
2x Multiface / 2x Digiface /2x ADI8

Re: Hammerfall DSP MADI IDE HDD Track count

I don´t see how somebody could be misleading from this point, especially when reading the accompanied product text. After countless PCI bus discussions in the past regarding this problem, esp. several cards sharing the same bus, I´am sure every pro audio user has recognized that the PCI express bus removes the bandwidth bottleneck of the PCI bus and is present on modern PC hardware with an overall higher performance potential. Easy to recognize this is not a statement about PCI express latency, but about the overall real-world performance of the RME HDSPe cards with all provided driver models, compared to it´s predecessors.

I think Matthias "even lower latencies" statement about the RME cards he gave me is right and from my professional experience it´s completely clear and easy to understand.

best regards
Knut

Re: Hammerfall DSP MADI IDE HDD Track count

So I can expect "even lower latencies" from my DAW if I drop $1500 on a PCIe HDSPe MADI card to replace my current HDSP PCI MADI card?  The ad copy clearly states "Even lower latencies" - (even lower then the PCI based HDSP series), right?

Even lower latencies compared to WHAT?  Even lower latencies of WHAT KIND?  That is open ended and designed to lead the consumer into assuming "ASIO Latency" - or at the very least a more efficient result that would allow more tracks or VST instances at a given ASIO latency compared to a PCI HDSP card that uses the same drivers ( wink ).

That is the point.  The ad copy suggests what I suppose above - and that's not accurate to my knowledge.  Even MC (and possibly you) have stated PCI and PCIe will have no appreciable difference in terms of ASIO latency and system performance in general - unless this stance has changed in the past week with some concrete data.

That is fairly clear to me as the consumer.  It might be lost when looking from the inside as corporate employee in the Advertising dept?

What would you think if you saw a Camera Ad that touted "Even Lower Latency".  I'd have to assume it would mean a faster shutter speed, more pics per second, less time to see the picture on the LCD display, etc along those lines.  Something I as the USER would be able to experience myself as a tangible improvement.  The RME "Even Lower Latencies" seems to be referring to PCIe latency - something the end user would never have any direct interaction with on any level.  So the consumer assumes you mean "ASIO Latency" - and the "creative" ad copy "works" as designed.  That's how I as a repeat RME customer see it.


If the HDSPe MADI card will truly allow "Even Lower Latencies" in my DAW compared to a HDSP MADI card - then I'll be quiet now.  Otherwise - I believe my beef holds water...

Respectfully yours (and you do have my respect),
Randyman...

cool

MADIface-XT+ARC / 3x HDSP MADI / ADI648
2x SSL Alphalink MADI AX
2x Multiface / 2x Digiface /2x ADI8