• Registered: 2008-03-01
  • Posts: 13

Topic: Combining RayDAT or HDSP9652 with HDSPe AIO for live recording

I have been using a FF800 for years in my studio. Love the all-in-one solution!

Now, I am looking at using a differing location computer for recording church worship services. We use a 48-channel Yamaha M7CL digital mixer, for which I will soon have 2 cards with 32-ADAT output channels (or perhaps a 3rd card for up to 48-ADAT output channels).

I was initially thinking that getting a RayDAT for the recording PC would be ideal, as it would transfer 32 channels all-together, within one TotalMix configuration.
However, I now realize that I would have no way to monitor the combined inputs via the RayDAT.

So, I am thinking about combining RME cards.

If I also get an HDSPe AIO, now I gain the desired headphone output (plus advantages of 8 more ADAT, S/Pdif, etc.). However, I understand there will now be 2 TotalMix mixers to deal with.

Q1: Is there a way to send the combined outputs from the RayDAT TotalMix mixer both into my recording software and also a combined send into the 2nd AIO TotalMix mixer, so I can monitor all combined inputs from the AOI headphone output?

Q2: Without a physical headphone output knob (such as is on the FF800), how do people control the headphone output level?  Best to purchase a "Suzy"?

Let me propose a similar scenario, but replace the RayDAT with an HDSP 9652.

Q3: Any problem mixing a previous generation HDSP with the newer HDSPe AIO, as long as my PC has both PCI and PCIe slots?

For example -
Q4: If the PCIe cards can achieve lower latency, are there any adverse results when PCI and PCIe cards are combined?

Q5: Or any issues running different eras of Total Mix simultaneously?

Q6: For clocking synchronization, presuming the Yamaha Digital mixer is the master clock, would I simply assign both RME cards to ADAT incoming sync via the RME software? Or do I need to utilize a physical sync connection (i.e. ADAT sync in or Wordclock on the 9632/52, but what about the RayDAT?)

Thanks so much!
(I just really wish the RayDAT included a breakout box with stereo audio in and a headphone preamp output!)

Fireface 800, RayDAT, Samplitude Pro
  • From: Germany
  • Registered: 2007-04-10
  • Posts: 9,858

Re: Combining RayDAT or HDSP9652 with HDSPe AIO for live recording

Craigster wrote:

Q1: Is there a way to send the combined outputs from the RayDAT TotalMix mixer both into my recording software

Internal Loopback, see manual

and also a combined send into the 2nd AIO TotalMix mixer, so I can monitor all combined inputs from the AOI headphone output?

No direct connection between mixers. You could do this through your software, though.

Q2: Without a physical headphone output knob (such as is on the FF800), how do people control the headphone output level?  Best to purchase a "Suzy"?

There is a level control in Totalmix.

Q3: Any problem mixing a previous generation HDSP with the newer HDSPe AIO, as long as my PC has both PCI and PCIe slots?

No.

Q4: If the PCIe cards can achieve lower latency, are there any adverse results when PCI and PCIe cards are combined?

The card does not automatically or actively "achieve" lower latency, it may allow lower latency in certain situations. No problem mixing PCI and PCIe.

Q5: Or any issues running different eras of Total Mix simultaneously?

Not sure what "eras" refers to... You will install one driver, so one instance of TM can control (and switch between) both cards' mixers.

Q6: For clocking synchronization, presuming the Yamaha Digital mixer is the master clock, would I simply assign both RME cards to ADAT incoming sync via the RME software?

Yes, that's sufficient..

(I just really wish the RayDAT included a breakout box with stereo audio in and a headphone preamp output!)

http://www.rme-audio.de/en_products_adi_2.php

Regards
Daniel Fuchs
RME

Regards
Daniel Fuchs
RME

RME Support's Website

  • Registered: 2008-03-01
  • Posts: 13

Re: Combining RayDAT or HDSP9652 with HDSPe AIO for live recording

Daniel -- you're awesome.

The ADI-2. Looks like that may be my ticket.

Could you assist with confirming my thinking regarding routing?
Here is a 40-ADAT channel configuration:

1. Yamaha M7CL outputting 32 channels ADAT to RayDAT (ADAT ins) for recording
2. Yamaha M7CL also outputting additional 8 channels ADAT to ADI-2 (ADAT in) for recording
3. Via Samplitude, recording software, output live recording from all 40 channels: assign Main Out to a RayDAT ADAT output, received by the ADI-2 ADAT input. And monitor all 40 recording channels live on the ADi-2 headphone output.

(And If I additionally want to record via stereo analog and S/Pdif inputs on the ADI-2, then I could acheive 44 channels recording input -- all monitored live via the headphones out. Correct?)

Please confirm if this is all doable as described.

Thanks!

Craig Allen
RME/Samplitude fan

Fireface 800, RayDAT, Samplitude Pro
  • Knut
  • Knut
  • DAW Mastermind
  • Offline
  • Registered: 2007-04-06
  • Posts: 1,618

Re: Combining RayDAT or HDSP9652 with HDSPe AIO for live recording

2. Yamaha M7CL also outputting additional 8 channels ADAT to ADI-2 (ADAT in) for recording

The ADI-2 is only a 2-channel converter. But you want to send 8 channels and record where?

3. Via Samplitude, recording software, output live recording from all 40 channels: assign Main Out to a RayDAT ADAT output, received by the ADI-2 ADAT input. And monitor all 40 recording channels live on the ADi-2 headphone output.

The ADI-2 input is not free (see no. 2)? But for your stereo headphone mix you can use the ADI-2 via it´s coaxial SPDIF input. You don´t need an ADAT output of the RayDAT to send the main mix to the the ADI-2.

For a more powerful and flexible monitoring setup I recommend the Fireface UC in stand alone mode (ADAT input + eight analog outputs - including headphones). With this combination you can send a signal to the main monitors and another mix to the phones output.

best regards
Knut

  • Registered: 2008-03-01
  • Posts: 13

Re: Combining RayDAT or HDSP9652 with HDSPe AIO for live recording

Knut.

Thanks for the reply.
I realized earlier today I had made a mistake in my post. And you've pointed out perhaps another misunderstanding I had about the ADI-2.
So, my #2 was off-base. I can't get another 8 channels into the PC via the ADI-2, because it's not IN the PC (nor connected via Firewire/USB).

What I would chiefly need the ADI-2 for is to monitor the 32 ADAT channels being sent to the computer (from a Yamaha M7CL) via the RayDAT, since the RayDAT doesn't provide any monitoring or A/DC.
So, I'm presuming I can monitor recording inputs (32 channels via RayDAT) via software (Samplitude), with outputs assigned in such a way as they get to the ADI-1.

You mention S/Pdif. However, the RayDAT card doesn't have S/Pdif (and I don't believe the mobo does either). So, that's why I'm thinking I would assign the software outputs from Samplitude to an ADAT output of the RayDAT, and feed this stereo feed to the ADI-2 -- using it as a DAC and headphone monitor.

So far so good?

Now, you are mentioning the ADI-2 input would not be "free" for additional uses. The fact that the ADI-2 connects to ADAT, S/PDIF, analog, etc. -- am I still limited to ONLY 2-channels in/out at a time?

So, if I am using optical In to headphone output, is No other Input available?

Similarly, if I use the XLR input to Optical output to record 2 analog tracks to PC, does this mean I can NOT also monitor the 2-channel recording?

Hmmm...
Maybe I'm back to needing a HDSPe AIO instead, to supplement the RayDAT, and achieve Analog i/o, headphone out, plus another ADAT i/o. And then just feed the headphone out to a Suzy to have knob control.

Thanks for any additional help with mentally configuring a full picture.

Fireface 800, RayDAT, Samplitude Pro
  • Knut
  • Knut
  • DAW Mastermind
  • Offline
  • Registered: 2007-04-06
  • Posts: 1,618

Re: Combining RayDAT or HDSP9652 with HDSPe AIO for live recording

You mention S/Pdif. However, the RayDAT card doesn't have S/Pdif

From the product website:
"For the first time, even SPDIF (phono) and AES/EBU (XLR) are simultaneously operational due to separated hardware and record/playback devices. RayDAT offers no less than 4 x ADAT optical I/O, SPDIF I/O and AES/EBU I/O. That's a whopping 36 channels of inputs and outputs."

am I still limited to ONLY 2-channels in/out at a time?

The ADI-2 is a 2-channel converter. You can monitor one stereo signal at the same time.

best regards
Knut

  • Registered: 2008-03-01
  • Posts: 13

Re: Combining RayDAT or HDSP9652 with HDSPe AIO for live recording

my mistake again.

Kudos on the RayDAT. It'll be great. Hope to order one right away.

Thanks Knut!

Fireface 800, RayDAT, Samplitude Pro