1 (edited by OMICS 2011-03-27 22:19:50)

Topic: Expresscard or Cardbus with Firewire for Laptop

Hi,

I'm still having problems with my laptop and Firewire despite having a TI Firewire chipset. I was thinking of giving it a last try using either the carbus or the expresscard slot in combination (both are TI as well) with one of these cards:

FW400:

http://www.siig.com/it-products/firewir … scard.html

http://www.siig.com/it-products/firewir … rdbus.html

FW800:

http://www.siig.com/it-products/firewir … rd-34.html

http://www.siig.com/it-products/firewir … v-kit.html


Or what about:

http://www.amazon.co.uk/LINDY-FireWire- … =8-2-fkmr0

What would you recommend?

Thanks,
Peter

MacPro 2009 5.1 (10.13.6, 2x3.46 6-Core), UFX+, FF800, Sequoia 16, Samplitude ProX5, Protools, Logic

Re: Expresscard or Cardbus with Firewire for Laptop

That one didn't work and caused my computer to freeze, slow down and what not:

http://www.siig.com/it-products/firewir … scard.html

What's next? No idea, sell the f***ing Fireface?! Probably. Let's see.

MacPro 2009 5.1 (10.13.6, 2x3.46 6-Core), UFX+, FF800, Sequoia 16, Samplitude ProX5, Protools, Logic

Re: Expresscard or Cardbus with Firewire for Laptop

How is this a problem of the Fireface?
A working laptop may be a better solution.


Regards
Daniel Fuchs
RME

Regards
Daniel Fuchs
RME

Re: Expresscard or Cardbus with Firewire for Laptop

Hmm, let me think... You mean after I did weeks of research on which chipset I might need to get a really expensive soundcard work with a computer that works really well otherwise, after spending days of running around shops checking notebooks for their Firewire chipset and after buying one which has the required TI chipset for an aweful lot of money and it still doesn't work?
And I'm not even talking about the time I spent e-mailing the support afterwards or the 4 weeks of trying to make it work by all means, including the reinstallation of two OS on a dualboot which set me back for days or buying different firewire cables and so on until I couldn't return it anymore. Now the expresscard that doesn't work as solution either, which uses TI on the card itself & in the slot of my computer...

Of course, I totally understand that RME can't test all laptops/computers and that the whole firewire issue in general is not RME's fault but I must say other Firewire interfaces from e.g. Apogee or Presonous do work on the same computers I tried. And last but not least, in years of working in audio I met NO person which didn't have at least on problem with their computer + Fireface (400 or 800); and I know quite a few people trying/using it. Obviously, it must work for other people but for me, unfortunately, the Fireface, of all the RME product I have and will buy, was a big waste of money I wish never happened.

I'll have to think and see what I do. Maybe I sell it and get another Octamic which goes with the other into my HDSP9652; which is in a Magma chassis going via cardbus (TI chipet) into the same computer - working fine without any trouble.

Cheers,
Peter

MacPro 2009 5.1 (10.13.6, 2x3.46 6-Core), UFX+, FF800, Sequoia 16, Samplitude ProX5, Protools, Logic

5 (edited by 19 frets 2011-03-26 22:29:33)

Re: Expresscard or Cardbus with Firewire for Laptop

Hi.  Sorry to read of your problems.  I am a FF800 user with a Dell laptop and I have had great success, so I know you must be frustrated.  There are a lot of threads in this forum about tips for getting your laptop to work with the Fireface units.  Have you tried searching here for tips on doing things like disabling the wireless, adjusting the power settings so that you machine in always running in high performance mode and not power saving mode, disabling the screen saver, disabling any bluetooth devices, built in web cams, Ethernet controllers, etc.  All of these things can affect your laptop processor's ability to handle continuous streaming audio.  There is a whole litany of things that can and should be tried to enable your laptop to work without problems.

There are also two programs that can be downloaded from the Web that can help you track down any offending devices.  One is DPC Latency Checker and the other is Resplendence software.  These programs can help you track down your laptop issues.

http://www.thesycon.de/deu/latency_check.shtml

http://www.resplendence.com/main

It might be, and likely is, more than just the TI Firewire chipset.  I have been able to successfully record on my RME Fireface through a SIIG Express card as well as the built in Ricoh Firewire chip set.  My DPC numbers are not as good as you find on a desktop system, but they remain in the yellow, which allows me to handle enough for live Ensemble recording with up to about 8 inputs.  I have never needed to record more than that, but I think it would handle more based on the stability and low CPU utilization numbers I am seeing so far if I needed it.

Can you provide us with some more details about exactly what is happening?  Does you system work at all or does it just crash?  Are you experiencing drop outs and stuttering?  What exactly is happening.  There are some really knowledgeable users here that will be more than happy to assist.  Give us some more details and let us take a shop at trying to help you isolate the problem.

In the end, laptops like you and I have are consumer grade laptops and are not tuned for audio production.  There is always the possibility that your laptop is just not destined to work as an audio laptop, but there are lot's of things that can be tried before making that determination.

Hope these suggestions help and give you some things to consider.

Re: Expresscard or Cardbus with Firewire for Laptop

Thanks for your reply Frets, appreciate it! Yes, I guess I read all of the threads here in the forum and have already disabled pretty much everything one by one including Wifi, webcam, LAN, cardbus, card reader etc etc. I also put it to the suggested 'Always on' energy profile, tried the legacy driver, disabled battery monitoring, IRQs look good etc but still, I get dropouts during recordings in the DAWs and error messages on the Fireface panel every now and then but can't say where from. That simply makes it too unreliable for work.

I also used DPC etc to figure out what's happening but after everything is disabled now - there is simply nothing left. The SIIG Express card makes the system freeze or crash. Without it, with the inbuilt firewire port, I can at least kind of playback and record. I guess if nobody has another idea it means either I get another laptop (which I can't afford) or sell the Fireface.

Thanks again,
Peter

MacPro 2009 5.1 (10.13.6, 2x3.46 6-Core), UFX+, FF800, Sequoia 16, Samplitude ProX5, Protools, Logic

Re: Expresscard or Cardbus with Firewire for Laptop

I understand Peter.  It does sound like you have pretty much run through all the options.  What does you DPC Latency Checker look like.  Do you have any spikes going into the red?  Have you tried any other interfaces just to see if it is some kind of incompatibility with either the FF or its drivers?  I wish I could offer some other options, but it sounds like you have tried them all.  Sometimes we just can't fix all the problems, but I sure hate to give up on one.  HeadScratch

8 (edited by OMICS 2011-03-27 02:55:17)

Re: Expresscard or Cardbus with Firewire for Laptop

Cheers. I feel the same about giving up when I don't want to and I wish it was different since I really like the idea of the FF!

DPC is green most of the times on XP but sometimes a high yellow or rarely even a red peak occurs and I get the dropouts. No idea what causes it. Under Vista it looks different since I use the Wifi etc and it's mostly yellow anyway. There I get even more dropouts and glitches but I don't mind too much since I mainly use it for normal office and smaller editing stuff (where I don't mind the odd glitch here and there).

On XP, is there maybe anything else I could do? I think it's SP3, not 100% sure though.

MacPro 2009 5.1 (10.13.6, 2x3.46 6-Core), UFX+, FF800, Sequoia 16, Samplitude ProX5, Protools, Logic

Re: Expresscard or Cardbus with Firewire for Laptop

OMICS wrote:

DPC is green most of the times on XP but sometimes a high yellow or rarely even a red peak occurs and I get the dropouts. No idea what causes it.

That's what you need to find out- The FF is clearly not to blame here... It is the victim of the dropouts, not the cause.


Regards
Daniel Fuchs
RME

Regards
Daniel Fuchs
RME

Re: Expresscard or Cardbus with Firewire for Laptop

Ok, DPC doesn't show me what causes it. Which of the 'Mon' softwares could show the culprit? Most likely it's a CPU peak caused by a process I guess but how do I see it exactly that moment or even better afterwards? The normal performance monitor in XP doesn't do the trick. So how can I see like a CPU peak hold on processes? Any idea?

Cheers,
Peter

MacPro 2009 5.1 (10.13.6, 2x3.46 6-Core), UFX+, FF800, Sequoia 16, Samplitude ProX5, Protools, Logic

Re: Expresscard or Cardbus with Firewire for Laptop

I haven't needed to use it myself, but this is the one recommended by RME and others here.  Hope this helps.

http://www.resplendence.com/latencymon

[q]New: LatencyMon 2.00 released

LatencyMon checks if a system is suitable for processing real time audio by measuring DPC and ISR excecution times as well as hard pagefaults. It will provide a comprehensible report and find the kernel modules and processes responsible for causing audio latencies which result in drop outs. It also provides the functionality of an ISR monitor, DPC monitor and a hard pagefault monitor.[/q]

12 (edited by OMICS 2011-03-27 19:03:00)

Re: Expresscard or Cardbus with Firewire for Laptop

Ah, a new version! I remember I used that a long time ago where it didn't help much but I while give it another shot. Thanks!

EDIT: Damn, doesn't run on XP where I'd need it. But thanks anyway.

MacPro 2009 5.1 (10.13.6, 2x3.46 6-Core), UFX+, FF800, Sequoia 16, Samplitude ProX5, Protools, Logic

Re: Expresscard or Cardbus with Firewire for Laptop

RATTV3 does provide more detailed results, but one has to manually browse through log files to see what may be causing high DPC counts.


Regards
Daniel Fuchs
RME

Regards
Daniel Fuchs
RME

Re: Expresscard or Cardbus with Firewire for Laptop

Ok, will try that too, thanks!

MacPro 2009 5.1 (10.13.6, 2x3.46 6-Core), UFX+, FF800, Sequoia 16, Samplitude ProX5, Protools, Logic

Re: Expresscard or Cardbus with Firewire for Laptop

This Acer laptop was, I think, supplied with Windows Vista.  Have you installed Windows 7?   If so, try running it on mains power with the battery removed.  Any better?

Re: Expresscard or Cardbus with Firewire for Laptop

Hi Laurence,

Yes, it came with Vista and I haven't tried it with W7 since I thought XP gives me better performance (W7 not being too different from Vista). Maybe as very last resort but I'd much rather see XP work to be honest.

Cheers,
Peter

MacPro 2009 5.1 (10.13.6, 2x3.46 6-Core), UFX+, FF800, Sequoia 16, Samplitude ProX5, Protools, Logic

Re: Expresscard or Cardbus with Firewire for Laptop

Vista was unfortunate.  But don't tar W7 with the same brush.  It's a very nice os.  And going back to XP isn't really an option any more, unless you have lots of legacy gear and aren't planning to progress.

BUT, be wary of changing os on a laptop from what it was supplied with.  Sometimes the power management system in particular is very specific to the hardware, BIOS and drivers.  Updates aren't always released.  And a typical problem is big latency spikes from the battery management system.

Re: Expresscard or Cardbus with Firewire for Laptop

Thanks for the information, I'll definitely keep that in mind! The main reason to have that laptop working are on-location recordings where I don't need much apart from the quick/clean/working OS + Fireface and Samplitude. Therefore I didn't mind XP where I had a license. But I'll certainly keep that in mind and may get rid of Vista and replace it with W7 at some point.

RATTV3 is next.

Cheers,
Peter

MacPro 2009 5.1 (10.13.6, 2x3.46 6-Core), UFX+, FF800, Sequoia 16, Samplitude ProX5, Protools, Logic

Re: Expresscard or Cardbus with Firewire for Laptop

I found that in the Samplitude forum and that helped quite a bit, can highly recommend it to all Firewire users having issues to at least try it: http://www.sensomusic.com/forums/viewto … ?pid=16911

Cheers,
Peter

MacPro 2009 5.1 (10.13.6, 2x3.46 6-Core), UFX+, FF800, Sequoia 16, Samplitude ProX5, Protools, Logic