1 Topic by olivier_c (edited by olivier_c 2011-04-29 12:38:01)

  • From: Lille / France
  • Registered: 2008-08-15
  • Posts: 7

Topic: hdspe multiface2 + ADI8-DS / sync / phase question

hello,
I actualy use a multiface2 + hdsp express card on a macbookpro (osx10.5).

I would like to add an ADI8-ds to have 16 out channel for analog summing. (summing channels groups during mix passing through analog devices and then summing groups for final stereo bounce)
(approx 3 to 5 AD/DA conversion)

so I would like to know: 
1- would ADI-8DS + Multiface2 works together in 24/96 to have 16 output channel (via ADAT ? )?
2- is there benefit to clock multiface2 to ADI-8DS via worldclock?
    if there is benefit, do i clock ADI8-DS on Multiface2, or Multiface2 on ADI8-DS?
3- will i have phase problems? (because of latency difference btw mutiface2 and ADI8-DS)
    if there is phases problems, is it possible to solve them (compensation of latency)
4- during recording i usally rec 8 channels (max at a time), so is it better to rec with ADI-8DS or Multiface2?

thanks.

olivier

(i hope it makes sense as you can see my english is a little bit french & not actually perfect ed:) )

---
Multiface2+hdsp express card
macbookpro (osx10.5.8)
http://www.olivierclasse.fr

olivier_c's Website

  • From: Germany
  • Registered: 2007-04-10
  • Posts: 9,558

Re: hdspe multiface2 + ADI8-DS / sync / phase question

Hello,

1) No, 12 channels only (4 ADAT channels for the MF at 96)
2) No
3) In theory, converter latency may be different by a few samples, but that does not matter with separate input signals
4) ADI converters are a bit better in theory...

And your English is fine.. ;-)

Regards
Daniel Fuchs
RME

Regards
Daniel Fuchs
RME

RME Support's Website

  • From: Lille / France
  • Registered: 2008-08-15
  • Posts: 7

Re: hdspe multiface2 + ADI8-DS / sync / phase question

thanks Daniel smile
the only way to have 16 output channels is to work in 16/44... Damned ...
do you know a way to have a 16 out 24/96 with a multiface2 plug on a macbookpro (only one express card port)?
or do i have to change for another soundcard?
As i have to make a lot of AD/DA conversion I supose that sample rate/freq is very important to conserve a maximum of analog stuff benefit?
what do think?

---
Multiface2+hdsp express card
macbookpro (osx10.5.8)
http://www.olivierclasse.fr

olivier_c's Website

  • Registered: 2011-04-22
  • Posts: 17

Re: hdspe multiface2 + ADI8-DS / sync / phase question

... or do i have to change for another soundcard?

Yes. ADAT can only transport 4 channels at 96 kHz. Via SMUX. The Multiface is with 12 on the limit.

As i have to make a lot of AD/DA conversion I supose that sample rate/freq is very important to conserve a maximum of analog stuff benefit?

Can you recognize a difference between different sample rates with your setup? If yes there is an audible benefit.

  • vinark
  • DAW Mastermind
  • Offline
  • Registered: 2009-06-05
  • Posts: 2,660

Re: hdspe multiface2 + ADI8-DS / sync / phase question

As i have to make a lot of AD/DA conversion I supose that sample rate/freq is very important to conserve a maximum of analog stuff benefit?

The easiest way is to check that for yourself is with the 8 outs you have and run the same mix at 44/48 and 96.
Yes summing can add something, but it can also destroy something and at best it is subtle. Sometimes placebo....or just a slightly different mix. Only real reason to do it is if you like the hands on fader, or if customers demand it wink . A very good summing box (a Neve if I remember correctly) was tested by sound on sound. Yes it did add some magic, but also when just used as outboard on the master out. It was not the summing but the transformers.
What are you using for summing?

Vincent, Amsterdam
https://soundcloud.com/thesecretworld
BFpro fs, 2X HDSP9652 ADI-8AE, 2X HDSP9632

6 Reply by olivier_c (edited by olivier_c 2011-04-29 16:06:16)

  • From: Lille / France
  • Registered: 2008-08-15
  • Posts: 7

Re: hdspe multiface2 + ADI8-DS / sync / phase question

thx for your answers,

@ vincent :
I use a phoenix audio nicerizer 16. (freshly arrived) haven't definitively patch it yet.
http://www.phoenixaudio.net/products_nicerizer16.html
I love nice tool and I love pushing and turning pots. :-)
2 - API 550b eq / a ridge farm boiler comp (it blast every sound, difficult to use, it's more an effect than a comp) I'm lookin for an API2500 comp.

@ RTonman, i have not bought a ADI-8ds, yet. but yes there is a clearly audible benefit between 24/96 and 16/44.

---
Multiface2+hdsp express card
macbookpro (osx10.5.8)
http://www.olivierclasse.fr

olivier_c's Website

7 Reply by vinark (edited by vinark 2011-04-29 16:26:13)

  • vinark
  • DAW Mastermind
  • Offline
  • Registered: 2009-06-05
  • Posts: 2,660

Re: hdspe multiface2 + ADI8-DS / sync / phase question

And 24/44? No reason to work at 16 bits. (if it´s not  a typo) and maybe even try 48Khz, might just make a small difference.
BTW I have an ADI8 AE which has the same output converters as the DS (AFAIK). I like them...

Vincent, Amsterdam
https://soundcloud.com/thesecretworld
BFpro fs, 2X HDSP9652 ADI-8AE, 2X HDSP9632
  • From: Lille / France
  • Registered: 2008-08-15
  • Posts: 7

Re: hdspe multiface2 + ADI8-DS / sync / phase question

Vincent,
you mean that i can work for exemple on 8 channel via one adat port in 24/44 ?
(for me the différence between 24/44 & 24/96 is less audible than 16/44 and 24/96) maybe it's 'acceptable'
a "typo" what do you means?

---
Multiface2+hdsp express card
macbookpro (osx10.5.8)
http://www.olivierclasse.fr

olivier_c's Website

9 Reply by vinark (edited by vinark 2011-04-29 16:37:25)

  • vinark
  • DAW Mastermind
  • Offline
  • Registered: 2009-06-05
  • Posts: 2,660

Re: hdspe multiface2 + ADI8-DS / sync / phase question

Yes you can work with 8 channel 24/44 and 24/48.
Typo (typing error), I thought maybe you meant 16 channels instead of 16 bits. No reason to use 16 bits ever, except when delivering the final finished dithered master for cd or mp3.
Hope this is helpful.

Vincent, Amsterdam
https://soundcloud.com/thesecretworld
BFpro fs, 2X HDSP9652 ADI-8AE, 2X HDSP9632
  • From: Lille / France
  • Registered: 2008-08-15
  • Posts: 7

Re: hdspe multiface2 + ADI8-DS / sync / phase question

thank vincent, absolutly helpfull :-)

I'm not sure sure, but working in 24/48 for convertion in 16/44 won't create a dithering problems?
I only work on and for music not for video.

---
Multiface2+hdsp express card
macbookpro (osx10.5.8)
http://www.olivierclasse.fr

olivier_c's Website

  • vinark
  • DAW Mastermind
  • Offline
  • Registered: 2009-06-05
  • Posts: 2,660

Re: hdspe multiface2 + ADI8-DS / sync / phase question

Yes maybe, but so does going from 96 to 44 and even 88 to 44. It´s just what you like best. Sample rate converting is also work, so it must have some benefit to do it. But Since you are going outboard 48K might be useful especialy if you can record that mix on another good interface at 24/44. Just a small test will tell you.
Dithering from 24/44 to 16/44 will create no issues at all (but needs to be done right). Only sample rate conversion does, but if it´s audible using a good program??

Vincent, Amsterdam
https://soundcloud.com/thesecretworld
BFpro fs, 2X HDSP9652 ADI-8AE, 2X HDSP9632

12 Reply by olivier_c (edited by olivier_c 2011-04-29 17:07:30)

  • From: Lille / France
  • Registered: 2008-08-15
  • Posts: 7

Re: hdspe multiface2 + ADI8-DS / sync / phase question

Yes you're Right voncent :-)
my question about dithering was theoric, i won't try. usually i use cubase anti dithering to be sure it won't create trouble to export the 24/96 stereo mix.
I haven't  take time to make test with and without anti dithering.

sidetrack:
for final bounce.
I ask myself if i won't try to rent an old school nagraIV in good condition to rec the final mix in 24bit and than re-record this final mix from nagra to Multiface in 16/44.
I hope to have time to try this during next month.

---
Multiface2+hdsp express card
macbookpro (osx10.5.8)
http://www.olivierclasse.fr

olivier_c's Website