Topic: Driver latency setting

hi,

when installing the driver new (after switching to the firewire (alt) driver,
i find the latency setting at 256 samples.

is this the default latency recommended?

we are playing edrums with bfd2 and fireface800.
so our drummer always wants lowest latency.

our system:
ASUS P5E3 Deluxe / Intel Core2 Quad 4 X 2.66 GHz / 8 GB DDR3 Ram / Windows 7 Pro 64 bit

thanks for a tip

Intel DX58SO2 / Core i7-960 / Kingston HyperX 1600 24 GB / Fireface800 / Windows 7 Pro 64 bit

Re: Driver latency setting

This is the default on a new installation, but you are expected change it to whatever value is suitable to the project at hand.

Regards,
Jeff Petersen
Synthax Inc.

Re: Driver latency setting

Jeff wrote:

This is the default on a new installation, but you are expected change it to whatever value is suitable to the project at hand.

this is just the question, what fits best to my system.

i fear that i have to play around with this setting all the time.

for edrum recording 128
for mixing project down 1024
for most recordings 256
etc.

however i don't know how to measure secure the lowest setting.

best regards

Intel DX58SO2 / Core i7-960 / Kingston HyperX 1600 24 GB / Fireface800 / Windows 7 Pro 64 bit

Re: Driver latency setting

Basically, you're correct. You'll get pops when you're pushing the system to hard for the current buffer size.

Regards,
Jeff Petersen
Synthax Inc.

Re: Driver latency setting

thanks for the fast response anyway.

:-)

Intel DX58SO2 / Core i7-960 / Kingston HyperX 1600 24 GB / Fireface800 / Windows 7 Pro 64 bit

Re: Driver latency setting

The lowest permissible setting is the lowest setting that works!  We can't really help you more than that.  When you need minimum latency (which, as you recognize isn't always) take the setting down until you get glitches.  While recording MIDI data but monitoring a virtual instrument you could even tolerate the odd clock and pop - it isn't getting recorded on the MIDI track after all!

Re: Driver latency setting

Laurence Payne wrote:

The lowest permissible setting is the lowest setting that works!  We can't really help you more than that.  When you need minimum latency (which, as you recognize isn't always) take the setting down until you get glitches.  While recording MIDI data but monitoring a virtual instrument you could even tolerate the odd clock and pop - it isn't getting recorded on the MIDI track after all!

this is what we're doing at the moment.

128, 64, for the drummer

are there users edruming with 48 successfully?

thought perhaps changing the board to Intel DX58SO2 and faster CPU.

you think there are still limits then?

cheers

Intel DX58SO2 / Core i7-960 / Kingston HyperX 1600 24 GB / Fireface800 / Windows 7 Pro 64 bit

Re: Driver latency setting

Every system will have limits.  Even my hot-rodded 4.2GHz i7 system has a ceiling at 32-Samples (where I run the PCI MADI card for all tracking).  I could get MUCH more power from the system if I ran at 128 or 256 samples, but I prefer 32 for my own drum tracking and it generally stays there until I'm actually rendering the final mix (I'm always assured I can drop into Record mode w/o latency or system resource issues).

A modern LGA1366 or Sandy Bridge system is sure to increase overall performance if your current system is a generation or more behind.  Faster RAM/QPI/CPU all adds up to a higher low-latency throughput for your digital audio needs...

With regards to Latency and Tracking - MAKE SURE you aren't using any plug-ins that have an inherent latency "built in".  Most any "linear phase" plug-in will introduce silly amounts of latency (Waves Lin-EQ, etc), and thinkgs like "lookahead limiters" will also have a small latency of their own (L3, Sonnox Limiter, etc).  Either disable these while tracking, find lower-latency alternatives, or "Constrain Plug-in Delay Compensation" in your DAW (sounds "yuch" IMO!).  These "latent" plug-ins will make a screaming fast system set to its lowest ASIO buffers seem like a sloth with regard to Latency and feel/timing...

cool

MADIface-XT+ARC / 3x HDSP MADI / ADI648
2x SSL Alphalink MADI AX
2x Multiface / 2x Digiface /2x ADI8

Re: Driver latency setting

Randyman... wrote:

Every system will have limits.  Even my hot-rodded 4.2GHz i7 system has a ceiling at 32-Samples (where I run the PCI MADI card for all tracking).  I could get MUCH more power from the system if I ran at 128 or 256 samples, but I prefer 32 for my own drum tracking and it generally stays there until I'm actually rendering the final mix (I'm always assured I can drop into Record mode w/o latency or system resource issues).

A modern LGA1366 or Sandy Bridge system is sure to increase overall performance if your current system is a generation or more behind.  Faster RAM/QPI/CPU all adds up to a higher low-latency throughput for your digital audio needs...

With regards to Latency and Tracking - MAKE SURE you aren't using any plug-ins that have an inherent latency "built in".  Most any "linear phase" plug-in will introduce silly amounts of latency (Waves Lin-EQ, etc), and thinkgs like "lookahead limiters" will also have a small latency of their own (L3, Sonnox Limiter, etc).  Either disable these while tracking, find lower-latency alternatives, or "Constrain Plug-in Delay Compensation" in your DAW (sounds "yuch" IMO!).  These "latent" plug-ins will make a screaming fast system set to its lowest ASIO buffers seem like a sloth with regard to Latency and feel/timing...

cool

thanks randyman for the helpful information.
i think the limit is also the firewire connection.
in the cubase testing group we have costumers swearing on PCI solutions.

however for us the features of the firefaxe800 are just exellent with very good results.

but we know the the virtual plugins might make the system weak.

for drums we have BFD2, which has been updated this month to a 64bit plugin.
for the bass we use AmpegSVX jbridged
and for guitars Guitar Rig 4 64 bit.

BFD2 is the most important and Guitar Rig 4 takes most CPU especially when creating new track by track etc...

Do you think a lot fast RAM has an influence on the latency, too?
the Intel DX58SO2 offers up to 48 GB.

cheers

Intel DX58SO2 / Core i7-960 / Kingston HyperX 1600 24 GB / Fireface800 / Windows 7 Pro 64 bit

Re: Driver latency setting

I dedicate a separate PC to VSTi's as they can demand a lot of resources, and I prefer to keep my main tracking DAW at 32-Samples for low-latency monitoring.  Even with a full mix and a dozen or more busses and loaded full of VST plug-ins @ 32-Samples of ASIO, I could still run 2-3 Amplitube/GuitarRigs at high quality, but I decided to also put Amplitube on the secondary VSTi PC - this way the guitar player can use that PC/LCD to tweak his guitar sounds and leave my main DAW alone :-) .  The VSTi PC connects to the main DAW over ADAT and MIDI - Works like a charm!

This might be something to consider if you have sizeable VSTi demands from your Tracking/Monitoring DAW (BFD2, Battery, etc).  There are programs that will effectively "link" 2 DAW's over Gig-E Ethernet, and I believe there are ways to remote-control the second PC from the main PC over the same Gig-E connection.  Someone else will need to chime in with more details on those solutions as my setup is a bit more straight-forward with ADAT/MIDI as the link.

Filling up a single PC with oodles of RAM might help (you won't get 48GB into 6 slots anyways wink 24GB is the max for 6-slots, and both the 4GB modules and running all 6 slots will be pretty hard on the IMC) - but you'll still have a finite CPU/RAM/QPI bandwidth cap that will still get divided up between all active applications.  A second PC effectively doubles everything (CPU/RAQM/QPI bandwidth), and then feeds the lower-bandwidth audio back and forth as needed.

cool

MADIface-XT+ARC / 3x HDSP MADI / ADI648
2x SSL Alphalink MADI AX
2x Multiface / 2x Digiface /2x ADI8

Re: Driver latency setting

Randyman... wrote:

I dedicate a separate PC to VSTi's as they can demand a lot of resources, and I prefer to keep my main tracking DAW at 32-Samples for low-latency monitoring.  Even with a full mix and a dozen or more busses and loaded full of VST plug-ins @ 32-Samples of ASIO, I could still run 2-3 Amplitube/GuitarRigs at high quality, but I decided to also put Amplitube on the secondary VSTi PC - this way the guitar player can use that PC/LCD to tweak his guitar sounds and leave my main DAW alone :-) .  The VSTi PC connects to the main DAW over ADAT and MIDI - Works like a charm!

This might be something to consider if you have sizeable VSTi demands from your Tracking/Monitoring DAW (BFD2, Battery, etc).  There are programs that will effectively "link" 2 DAW's over Gig-E Ethernet, and I believe there are ways to remote-control the second PC from the main PC over the same Gig-E connection.  Someone else will need to chime in with more details on those solutions as my setup is a bit more straight-forward with ADAT/MIDI as the link.

Filling up a single PC with oodles of RAM might help (you won't get 48GB into 6 slots anyways wink 24GB is the max for 6-slots, and both the 4GB modules and running all 6 slots will be pretty hard on the IMC) - but you'll still have a finite CPU/RAM/QPI bandwidth cap that will still get divided up between all active applications.  A second PC effectively doubles everything (CPU/RAQM/QPI bandwidth), and then feeds the lower-bandwidth audio back and forth as needed.

cool

sounds great.
we will think it over.
btw have absolutely no experience with ADAT yet.

:-)

Intel DX58SO2 / Core i7-960 / Kingston HyperX 1600 24 GB / Fireface800 / Windows 7 Pro 64 bit

Re: Driver latency setting

Randyman... wrote:

Every system will have limits.  Even my hot-rodded 4.2GHz i7 system has a ceiling at 32-Samples (where I run the PCI MADI card for all tracking).  I could get MUCH more power from the system if I ran at 128 or 256 samples, but I prefer 32 for my own drum tracking and it generally stays there until I'm actually rendering the final mix (I'm always assured I can drop into Record mode w/o latency or system resource issues).

A modern LGA1366 or Sandy Bridge system is sure to increase overall performance if your current system is a generation or more behind.  Faster RAM/QPI/CPU all adds up to a higher low-latency throughput for your digital audio needs...

With regards to Latency and Tracking - MAKE SURE you aren't using any plug-ins that have an inherent latency "built in".  Most any "linear phase" plug-in will introduce silly amounts of latency (Waves Lin-EQ, etc), and thinkgs like "lookahead limiters" will also have a small latency of their own (L3, Sonnox Limiter, etc).  Either disable these while tracking, find lower-latency alternatives, or "Constrain Plug-in Delay Compensation" in your DAW (sounds "yuch" IMO!).  These "latent" plug-ins will make a screaming fast system set to its lowest ASIO buffers seem like a sloth with regard to Latency and feel/timing...

cool

Hi Ranyman,

finally we have build us two computers like said:

INTEL DX58SO2 / Intel Core i7-960 / Kingston HyperX 1600 24 GB

Indeed a powerful, relieable machine.


You proposed in a post a bit later here,
to connect two computers via ethernet and have cubase on one machine,
and the latency hungry plugins (as standalone) on the other machine,
like bfd2, guitar rig etc.

could you give me some more details, how this connection must be configured?

i think you wanted to record audio from the plugin machine to the cubase machine.

sorry my bad english.


thanks for your assistance

:-)

Intel DX58SO2 / Core i7-960 / Kingston HyperX 1600 24 GB / Fireface800 / Windows 7 Pro 64 bit

Re: Driver latency setting

Sounds like you've got a nice stable setup :-)

I don't have any first-hand experience with the Ethernet Audio type software - but I know it exists.  I personally use ADAT (for Audio) and MIDI to link my dedicated VSTi PC to the primary DAW.  I record the audio and MIDI to their own tracks so I can load up a different VSTi Plug-in on the main DAW during Mixdown if I decide we need a different sound that we initially recorded.

I'm not exactly sure how the Ethernet Audio Driver would integrate with the RME ASIO Driver in your host DAW.  For me, it's easier to use the HDSPe MADI Card and bring everything in through it (Analog I/O plus the ADAT I/O from the VSTi PC).  This way I'm only using the single RME ASIO Audio/MIDI Driver in Nuendo.

Please note - this will not get around plug-ins that have a high latency - this will only help with plug-ins that need a large RAM/CPU footprint so you can free-up the main DAW PC for tracking and mixing duties.  If you run a highly-latent plug-in (VST or VSTi) on either PC, you'll still have real-time latency concerns to deal with (not generaly an issue for mixing, but can be a show-stopper for tracking depending on your setup).  I run both DAW's at 32-Samples, and the latency is literally a non-issue.

I know at least a few people on this forum are likely familiar with the Ethernet Audio Software (can't recall the brand/model) - Maybe they will chime in?  I've also seen it mentioned numerous times over at www.cubendo.com ...

Report back and let us know what you find!

cool

MADIface-XT+ARC / 3x HDSP MADI / ADI648
2x SSL Alphalink MADI AX
2x Multiface / 2x Digiface /2x ADI8

Re: Driver latency setting

thank you Randyman for the details.
i will make a research to get some more details.

take care

cool

Intel DX58SO2 / Core i7-960 / Kingston HyperX 1600 24 GB / Fireface800 / Windows 7 Pro 64 bit