• From: Canada
  • Registered: 2008-06-27
  • Posts: 25

Topic: Clicks on ADAT inputs of Fireface 800 with OctamicD

The issue
========
When using my OctamicD connected to my Fireface 800, clicks appear randomly at the ADAT1 and ADAT2 inputs.
(See below for detailed configuration information).

To troubleshoot, I connected
    a line level test signal to inputs 1-8 of the OctamicD and to inputs 9-10 of the FF800,
    the OctamicD line outputs 1-8 to the FF800 line inputs 1-8,
    the OctamicD ADATmain to the FF800 ADAT1 input,
    the OctamicD ADATaux to the FF800 ADAT2 input
and I recorded everything with Digicheck 4.53

There were no clicks in the line inputs 1-8 and line inputs 9-10.
There were clicks in the ADAT1 & ADAT2 files, but the clicks in the ADAT1 group occurred in different spots than in the ADAT2 group.
The clicks were consistent across all channels within a given group.

Examination of the affected waveforms reveals that the sample value abruptly jumps to zero, stays there for a few samples (variable), and then jumps back to the value it would normally have.

My next step is to connect another ADAT source to the FF800 to determine whether the problem lies with the OctamicD or the FF800.

If anyone has any ideas or suggestions, I'd like to hear them.

Thanks
--
Guy


PC
==
OS = WindowsXP Pro SP2
Motherboard = ASUS P4C800-E-Deluxe
CPU = Intel P4 3.00Ghz Northwood
Firewire = Adaptec Fireconnect 4300

Fireface 800
=========
Serial number = 22414370
Driver date = 06.02.08
Driver version = 2.85
Hardware Revision = 2.47

Octamic-D
========
Serial number = 22496109

Connections
=========
[line level test signal] ---> FF800/input/TRS/9...10
[line level test signal] ---> OctamicD/input/TRS/1...8
FF800/output/Word ---> OctamicD/input/Word (terminated)
OctamicD/output/Line/1...8 ---> FF800/input/Line1...8
OctamicD/output/ADATMain ---> FF800/input/ADAT1
OctamicD/output/ADATAux ---> FF800/input/ADAT2

Settings
======
OctamicD/DIPSwitches = [1:ON, 2:ON, 3:OFF, 4:OFF, 5:OFF, 6:OFF] (ON is down position)
OctamicD/Output = +4dBu
OctamicD/PhantomPower = OFF (1...8)
OctamicD/LoCut = OFF (1...8)
OctamicD/Phase = 0 (1...8)
FF800/BufferSize = 256
FF800/Inputs/1,7,8 = Rear
FF800/LimitBandwidth = All channels
FF800/SPDIF_In = Coaxial
FF800/SPDIF_Out = Professional
FF800/Input_Level = +4 dBu
FF800/Output_Level = +4 dBu
FF800/PhantomPower/7,8,9,10 = OFF
FF800/Instrument_options = OFF
FF800/WordClockOut = SingleSpeed
FF800/Options/CheckInput = ON
FF800/Options/SyncAlign = ON
FF800/Options/TMS = ON
FF800/Options/Interleaved = ON
FF800/ClockMode = Master
FF800/PrefSyncRef = WordClock
FF800//DDS = OFF

Status
=====
FF800/SPDIFFreq = No Lock
FF800/SyncCheck/WordClock = No Lock
FF800/SyncCheck/ADAT1_In = Sync
FF800/SyncCheck/ADAT2_In = Sync
FF800/SyncCheck/SPDIF_In = No Lock
FF800/SyncCheck/TCO_In = No Lock
FF800/AutoSyncRef/Input = ADAT1
FF800/AutoSyncRef/Freq = 48 kHz
FF800/SystemClock/Mode = Master
FF800/SystemClock/Freq = 48 kHz

--
Guy St-Denis
  • From: Canada
  • Registered: 2008-06-27
  • Posts: 25

Re: Clicks on ADAT inputs of Fireface 800 with OctamicD

Troubleshooting update...

I've eliminated the FF800 ADAT inputs as possible suspects.

I've also noticed that the clicks seem to go away when I set the FF800 Master clock to 44.1 kHz (and multiples), instead of 48 kHz (and multiples).

I've tried various combinations of the OctamicD INT/EXT, 44.1/48 dip switch settings without any noticeable improvements.

Also tried different wordclock cables...



Soooo... it looks like the ADC Modul in the OctamicD might be having problems.
(Hmmmm... Octamic II may have addressed some of the OctamicD deficiencies???)

What do you think???
--
Guy

--
Guy St-Denis

3 Reply by MC

  • MC
  • MC
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  • From: Germany/Thailand
  • Registered: 2007-04-06
  • Posts: 25,599

Re: Clicks on ADAT inputs of Fireface 800 with OctamicD

All your settings are correct. But it seems the ADC does not detect the word clock signal correctly, so either the word clock cable or the ADC is broken.

> (Hmmmm... Octamic II may have addressed some of the OctamicD deficiencies???)

Hmmm...it has the same ADC module...

Regards
Matthias Carstens
RME

MC's Website

  • From: Canada
  • Registered: 2008-06-27
  • Posts: 25

Re: Clicks on ADAT inputs of Fireface 800 with OctamicD

Ok Matthias, thanks for the info.

I'll let you (RME) have a look at it to see what may be going on.

I'm also thinking about whether the FF800 Wordclock output could be an issue?
Is there an easy way to rule that out other than connecting it to some other digital device?


Cheers
--
Guy

--
Guy St-Denis
  • From: Canada
  • Registered: 2008-06-27
  • Posts: 25

Re: Clicks on ADAT inputs of Fireface 800 with OctamicD

As a follow up to my last post...

I verified the FF800 Wordclock output by connecting it to a Sound Devices 702 Wordclock input.
The 702's LOCK and SAMPLE RATE indicators confirmed that the FF800 Wordclock output was sending out a valid signal.

So the culprit still appears to be the OctamicD.
It will be shipped out ASAP to get inspected.

Thanks!

--
Guy St-Denis
  • Registered: 2011-10-15
  • Posts: 5

Re: Clicks on ADAT inputs of Fireface 800 with OctamicD

Hi,

I´m taking this up again, because I couldn´t find a solution so far.

I´m using a Fireface 800 with a Mac Pro 2008, and everything worked fine so far. Wordclockmaster is my 02R on 48kHz. Now I added a Toslink Cable to the Adat 1 In and on the other side is a Alesis QSR-Synth, running on 48kHz too - this is its only available frequency. Connected that I get clicks randomly on left and right of the Adat out of the Fireface, approx. one click per second, some are max. loud. Only the first two channels are affected. When I start the Mac and start for example the Akustik-Piano from N.I. all 8 channels get a full signal for a short time (half a second or so, only still the first two ones in case of the octopre). After that everything is ok. When the mac remains switched on, everything is ok. When I shut the mac down again, there are no clicks as well. Only in case that all the studio power was turned off and is switched on again, the clicks start again (so everyday when I turn the studio on).

Now I added a Octopre instead of the Alesis QSR (and the QSR in fact doesn´t offer a adat-signal but a optical spdif), and the problem remains. I get the clicks until I start the mac. But this is not tollerable for me for I often use my studio without the mac.

It seems that I have a little less clicks with 44,1kHz.

Has anyone solved the problem so far?

Does all that mean, I need something like a firewire-simulator when the mac is still off after turning the studio on? Jokes aside: Does anyone has got an idea for a firewire-simulator? A mac mini at the firewire-400 port? Right now I´m using the firewire-400-port with the mac pro but ordered a firewire-800-cable which I will use from next week on.

Best regards,

Philip

7 Reply by MC

  • MC
  • MC
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  • From: Germany/Thailand
  • Registered: 2007-04-06
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Re: Clicks on ADAT inputs of Fireface 800 with OctamicD

Can the Alesis synth be synced, and if so did you do that and how? If not then I don't see how the 02R can be master in that setup...

Regards
Matthias Carstens
RME

MC's Website

  • Registered: 2011-10-15
  • Posts: 5

Re: Clicks on ADAT inputs of Fireface 800 with OctamicD

No, as I said - it doesn´t work with the Alesis either. In that case, however, it could have been possible that the Alesis isn´t just offering a good signal without jitter or something. But both, the Alesis and the Octopre, show the same results.

My main question is: Why does it stop right at the moment, the interface is found by the (now turned on) mac and the firewire connection is established. That just doesn´t make sense to me, because in this case both units work perfectly, the Alesis and the Focusrite Octopre.

The sync-line is as follows: O2r as master -> Fireface800 -> Alesis or Octopre (never together)

Perhaps I could try to make Fireface the master, but I don´t like that very much, because I want to change the sampling frequency via the 02r, especially when the mac is not turned on. But as a compromise I could imagine this as a solution. I will try that.

What I just don´t understand: When the octopre sends 8 channels via adat to fireface800, and fireface800 sends 8 channels via adat out to the 02r, then - as much as I understood it - the wordlock signal is transported via the adat connections, right? But isn´t it then that I have double a wordclock chain when I connect the units via bnc as well? I tried to run the system without bnc, but octopre was out of sync then. I don´t know why...

  • Registered: 2011-10-15
  • Posts: 5

Re: Clicks on ADAT inputs of Fireface 800 with OctamicD

I´ve tried to sync with the fireface800 as the master. When the mac is turned off, only the 02R is synced, the Octopre isnt.

However - no clicks so far (test runs about 15 minutes).

When I boot the mac, the octopre is synced also, and everything works fine.

We´ll see...

  • Jeff
  • Jeff
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  • From: USA
  • Registered: 2007-05-21
  • Posts: 4,667

Re: Clicks on ADAT inputs of Fireface 800 with OctamicD

In either case (02R master or FF master), your other converter must be set up to sync to clock coming from the FF, either via ADAT or Word Clock.

Regards,
Jeff Petersen
Synthax Inc.

Jeff's Website

  • Registered: 2011-10-15
  • Posts: 5

Re: Clicks on ADAT inputs of Fireface 800 with OctamicD

Yes, of course, the octopre is always set up as sync-slave and so the Alesis was.

  • Jeff
  • Jeff
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Re: Clicks on ADAT inputs of Fireface 800 with OctamicD

Please double check your settings for SPDIF I/O in the FF800 Settings app, make sure you did not set the ADAT 2 I/O ports to operate in SPDIF mode.

So, what does FF800 settings report in SyncCheck? Each input shows No Lock, Lock, or Sync. Any used digital input should be showing steady Sync if it is set up and operating correctly. If not, either you have wrong settings on the converter, or something is broken (bad cable, etc).

Regards,
Jeff Petersen
Synthax Inc.

Jeff's Website

  • Registered: 2011-10-15
  • Posts: 5

Re: Clicks on ADAT inputs of Fireface 800 with OctamicD

hmm, the Adat2-setting is ok, and everything is in sync in the FF800-settings-app.

And the main problem still remains: Everything works fine, when the Mac is booted. Somehow the FF800 behaves the wrong way so to say when there wasn´t (isn´t) a computer booted.

Another example with the same ´no booted computer´ - problem: As I said, I tried to make FF800 as wordclock-master. When I do this, my octopre is not synced when I turn the studio on. But when I start my mac - all of a sudden the clock from the FF800 sets the octopre in sync, and everything´s fine. But: That doesn´t work either, because with my mac not booted and therefore without the sync from the FF800, the octopre doesn´t work because it only does, when it´s in sync.

I never had problems with the FF800, because I never connected something to the Adat1-port. Another guy wrote that it´s possible that a sub-board of the FF800 is damaged. Is that possible? How much would it be to replace that, and does someone have experiences with that?

  • Jeff
  • Jeff
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  • Registered: 2007-05-21
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Re: Clicks on ADAT inputs of Fireface 800 with OctamicD

There is definitely no hardware problem since "everything works fine, when the Mac is booted."

When you power on the FF800 with no computer connected (or computer turned off), it loads settings from internal memory. When you power on the Mac, the settings from the computer override these "stand alone" settings. If you want the stand alone settings to change to match your settings in the computer, hit the "Store" button in the FF Settings app - this writes current settings to the internal memory of the FF800.

Reading back to your first post, it seems this was the problem all along, but your explanation was confusing.

Regards,
Jeff Petersen
Synthax Inc.

Jeff's Website