• Registered: 2011-10-16
  • Posts: 6

Topic: 3x Orpheus into RayDat : how to manage clocking ?

Hi everyone,

This is my first post here.

I am using a RayDat to "host" 3 Orpheus units in ADAT direct mode (all running in internal clock).
I get random crackles and noises, which I believe are due to bad clocking.
I'd like to use one of the incoming clock signal from the Orpheus (ADAT 1 for instance) to clock the 2 others, so I chose ADAT1 as the clock source in the RayDat control panel but obviously, the 2 other units are not sync'd properly.

Any (quick) help would be VERY welcome, thanks!

  • Jeff
  • Jeff
  • Moderator
  • Offline
  • From: USA
  • Registered: 2007-05-21
  • Posts: 4,649

Re: 3x Orpheus into RayDat : how to manage clocking ?

Yes, your clocking is wrong. Only one device can run on internal clock. Set the other two Orpheus units to sync to ADAT in.

Or, you could choose one Orpheus to use as the master clock, then run BNC for word clock out to the next, then the 3rd.

In either case, the RayDAT should sync to ADAT in from the master unit.

Regards,
Jeff Petersen
Synthax Inc.

Jeff's Website

3 Reply by pask74 (edited by pask74 2011-10-17 09:04:43)

  • Registered: 2011-10-16
  • Posts: 6

Re: 3x Orpheus into RayDat : how to manage clocking ?

Hi Jeff,

Thanks for your very useful reply.

I unsuccessfully tried both your methods, I am afraid.

Talking of daisy-chaining WCK, strangely enough I got no clock signal in the 3rd unit (receiving from the 2nd).
Could it be that an incoming WCK signal is not automatically mirrorred to its WCK output?

I will try again your methods (the first one being the most practical, I guess).

Something I am thinking of right now is when I switch on my Orpheuses, 1st unit runs 44.1 khz and the other 2 "wake up" in 48 khz mode. I have to switch them to 44.1 using the FW plug and Orpheus control panel. Maybe I should use the stand-by technique to write those settings in their internal memory before powering them up again so that they all wake up in 44.1 right away?

  • isaac
  • isaac
  • S/Mux specialist
  • Offline
  • From: Auckland New Zealand
  • Registered: 2007-05-01
  • Posts: 339

Re: 3x Orpheus into RayDat : how to manage clocking ?

pask74 wrote:

Hi Jeff,

Thanks for your very useful reply.

I unsuccessfully tried both your methods, I am afraid.

Talking of daisy-chaining WCK, strangely enough I got no clock signal in the 3rd unit (receiving from the 2nd).
Could it be that an incoming WCK signal is not automatically mirrorred to its WCK output?

I will try again your methods (the first one being the most practical, I guess).

Something I am thinking of right now is when I switch on my Orpheuses, 1st unit runs 44.1 khz and the other 2 "wake up" in 48 khz mode. I have to switch them to 44.1 using the FW plug and Orpheus control panel. Maybe I should use the stand-by technique to write those settings in their internal memory before powering them up again so that they all wake up in 44.1 right away?

It sounds like The Orpheuse units two and three are not set to sync to the correct place. Only one unit can be the master. If they are coming up with the wrong sample rate then they are not syncing correctly.

If it isn't sending out WCK I would get them repaired!

Or just use the RME as your master clock ;-)

Isaac P

  • Registered: 2011-10-16
  • Posts: 6

Re: 3x Orpheus into RayDat : how to manage clocking ?

OK - thanks.
What is a bit confusing to me is the interaction between Orpheus and RayDat.
I thought the Orpheuses' clocks were sort of over-ridden by the RayDat, as the RayDat operates as a digital hub.

Just to clarifiy, should one of these options work ?
1. all Orpheuses in ADAT clock mode // RayDat being the master clock

2. Orpheus 1 as the master clock, units 2&3 in ADAT clock // RayDat receiving the clock from unit 1 and sending it to units 2&3

3. Orpheus 1 sending WCK to unit 2, unit 2 sending WCK to unit 3 // RayDat not involved in clocking

I'd be interested to compare the RME clock to the Orpheuses', but I really liked how the Orpheuses sound with their internal clocking.

Thanks for your help anyway!

  • isaac
  • isaac
  • S/Mux specialist
  • Offline
  • From: Auckland New Zealand
  • Registered: 2007-05-01
  • Posts: 339

Re: 3x Orpheus into RayDat : how to manage clocking ?

pask74 wrote:

OK - thanks.
What is a bit confusing to me is the interaction between Orpheus and RayDat.
I thought the Orpheuses' clocks were sort of over-ridden by the RayDat, as the RayDat operates as a digital hub.

Just to clarifiy, should one of these options work ?
1. all Orpheuses in ADAT clock mode // RayDat being the master clock

2. Orpheus 1 as the master clock, units 2&3 in ADAT clock // RayDat receiving the clock from unit 1 and sending it to units 2&3

3. Orpheus 1 sending WCK to unit 2, unit 2 sending WCK to unit 3 // RayDat not involved in clocking

I'd be interested to compare the RME clock to the Orpheuses', but I really liked how the Orpheuses sound with their internal clocking.

Thanks for your help anyway!

1: Easiest option and also means that when you change samplerates on your computer the Orpheus' will also follow.

2: Will work but means that you will have to physically change the clock on Orpheus 1 to match.

3: Will not work!!!! Every digital device needs to be  synced together. This will give you clicks and pops.

Hope this helps,

Isaac P

  • From: Houston, TX
  • Registered: 2007-05-11
  • Posts: 1,191

Re: 3x Orpheus into RayDat : how to manage clocking ?

#3 could work assuming you use BNC "Tees" for distribution or if the Orpheus' WC Outputs can act as a "Loop-Thru".  The RayDat would then sync to ADAT #1 or BNC (probably won't mater TBH - The RayDat also has SteadyClock and isn't doing any AD/DA conversion anyways).

It is generally assumed that most good converters ("Good" being a key word :-° ) sound best on their internal crystal - so why sarafice all internal crystal clocking when you can have at least one unit running off its internal crystal for lowest jitter?

cool

MADIface-XT+ARC / 3x HDSP MADI / ADI648
2x SSL Alphalink MADI AX
2x Multiface / 2x Digiface /2x ADI8
  • isaac
  • isaac
  • S/Mux specialist
  • Offline
  • From: Auckland New Zealand
  • Registered: 2007-05-01
  • Posts: 339

Re: 3x Orpheus into RayDat : how to manage clocking ?

Randyman... wrote:

#3 could work assuming you use BNC "Tees" for distribution or if the Orpheus' WC Outputs can act as a "Loop-Thru".  The RayDat would then sync to ADAT #1 or BNC (probably won't mater TBH - The RayDat also has SteadyClock and isn't doing any AD/DA conversion anyways).

It is generally assumed that most good converters ("Good" being a key word :-° ) sound best on their internal crystal - so why sarafice all internal crystal clocking when you can have at least one unit running off its internal crystal for lowest jitter?

cool

except in 3: The raydat would be running off internal sync.

I'd trust RME clocks over most others.

Hope we are helping! :-)

Isaac P.

  • Registered: 2011-10-16
  • Posts: 6

Re: 3x Orpheus into RayDat : how to manage clocking ?

You are definitely helping - thanks a ton !

I got a reply from Prismsound in the meantime and will configure all this tonight + let you know.

Cheers,

  • Registered: 2011-10-16
  • Posts: 6

Re: 3x Orpheus into RayDat : how to manage clocking ?

Cool, my setup is now fully operational, thanks a lot, RME people & Prismsound techs !

So, to make it simple, I chose option 1. The Orpheuses sort of re-interprete any incoming clocks anyway said Prismsound...
Now, changing sample rate requires manually connecting the firewire cable to the computer and use the Orpheus control panel to switch fs, a bit tedious but works.
Simply changing the sample rate from the RayDat will just let Orpheuses mute.

Option 2 should also work but is too complicated.
Option 3 would require the use of the WordClock card alongside the regular RayDat.

Well, apparently I will stick to option 1, benefitting from a very low latency (allowing me to send monitor mixes from the software // cool!) thanks to the RayDat.
I'd had loved to be able to work in 88.2 khz, though ... nevermind.

  • From: Houston, TX
  • Registered: 2007-05-11
  • Posts: 1,191

Re: 3x Orpheus into RayDat : how to manage clocking ?

Sounds like the Prism has their own version of "SteadyClock" (re-clocks any incoming signal just like SteadyClock does) :-)

Actually option #3 would simply have the RayDat syncing over ADAT (where the RayDat's SteadyClock would completely recover a clean clock) - and the fact that the RayDat isn't actually an AD/DA converter would make its clocking and jitter a moot point (as long as it syncs to the master clock within a certain tolerance, the jitter component is a non-issue at the digital transfer stage - jitter is only an issue at AD/DA conversion points).

I still prefer to run my "best" or most-used converter internally and use it as my system master - but that's just me...

As you were cool

MADIface-XT+ARC / 3x HDSP MADI / ADI648
2x SSL Alphalink MADI AX
2x Multiface / 2x Digiface /2x ADI8
  • Registered: 2011-10-16
  • Posts: 6

Re: 3x Orpheus into RayDat : how to manage clocking ?

It's so much of a relief to be glitch-free now that I will probably enjoy this for a few more weeks before I make comparisons between the working options.
A huge thank you to all of you!

  • Registered: 2013-12-10
  • Posts: 1

Re: 3x Orpheus into RayDat : how to manage clocking ?

pask74 wrote:

It's so much of a relief to be glitch-free now that I will probably enjoy this for a few more weeks before I make comparisons between the working options.
A huge thank you to all of you!

Hi there!

I know this thread is pretty old now but I'm curious how you ended up.
I've been running a RayDAT card with 2 x Orpheus for about a year now and after some initial teething problems it's been rock solid.

I'm clocking it all from the RME internal clock and using ADAT sync so that the two Orpheus' are slaving to the ADAT clock.
The biggest downside is that I still have to change the sample rate setting on the Orpheus' manually when ever the RME switches. I checked with Prism Sound and apparently that is just the way things are done in the Orpheus.

How is your setup running, pask74?