Topic: Crackling problem with FF400 & Win7x64

Hi guys, I need some help from you, since I'm having problems avoiding crackles in mi FF400.

I've followed every step in the user guide in order to avoid this problem: I've increased the buffer size from the default option to each one of the values above since I've arrived to the maximum allowed (1024 samples) but the crackling goes on, making difficult to hear music (or even the own Windows sounds) and impossible to work with daws or similar programs. Using headphones the problem keeps going on, but using the device as a stand-alone there is no problem, so I think we can discard the own unit and the monitor system.

I think the problem could be the computer. As I've said the system runs Win7x64 and other main features of the computer are: IntelCore2 Quad Q6600@2,4GHz / 8GB DDR3 RAM / Gigabyte Geforce GT440 (1GB DDR3). The motherboard had no FireWire port, so I installed a PCI-card. The user guide says there is no problem with this cards and in fact is the recommended solution in this case. Apart from the problem with the FF400, the computer runs well... no problems with video, memory, processing, etc. It is not a "last generation" system, but it exceeds the minimum requirements to use this interface.

I've even formatted the computer and now I'm running only with Win, the motherboard drivers, the graphics accelerator drivers and the most recent RME drivers/software.

Please, tell me about any procedure, application or anything to solve the problem, since I've ran out of ideas.

Thanks and sorry for my poor English.

Re: Crackling problem with FF400 & Win7x64

Hi again:

Just to test I've plugged it to a 9-years-old Compaq Presario 2510EA laptop and works fine...0 crackles.

Now I'm even more lost.

Re: Crackling problem with FF400 & Win7x64

Simple test I would run is the DPC latency checker (Have you done?), and if you see red spikes, then run LatencyMon, which gives you the information about drivers giving high DPC latency. My educational guess is the nVidia video driver, but could be 1394 driver. Have you tried 1394 legacy driver?

Re: Crackling problem with FF400 & Win7x64

Yes, I already checked the latency with the DPC and as you say, it reported (very high) red spikes up to 16k and the "some device drivers on this machine behave bad and will probably..." message. After the scan I went to the device manager in Windows and checked every hardware was correctly recognized and the drivers up to date... couldn't think what else to do!! sad

Now I'm running the LatencyMon v 3.00 (didn't know this) and it shows a intense red "your system appears to be having trouble..." message too. Since I'm not familiar with the software, I don't know how to readt the data or what to do to solve the problem, so I hope you can give me some guidelines.

And of course, thanks for the help!!

Re: Crackling problem with FF400 & Win7x64

Read this: http://www.resplendence.com/latencymon_using

Regards,
Jeff Petersen
Synthax Inc.

Re: Crackling problem with FF400 & Win7x64

Oh my God... according to that I have serious problems. All the values are far beyond the 4000 µs!!

http://img836.imageshack.us/img836/9073/screenshot01je.th.jpg

Uploaded with ImageShack.us

The "stats report" are:

CONCLUSION
_________________________________________________________________________________________________________
Your system appears to be having trouble handling real-time audio and other tasks. You are likely to experience buffer underruns appearing as drop outs, clicks or pops. One or more DPC routines belonging to a driver running in your system appear to be executing for too long. Also one or more ISR routines belonging to a driver running in your system appear to be executing for too long. Also your system appears to be having trouble which may be attributed to SMI routines, CPU bugs or unexplainable CPU stalls.
LatencyMon has been analyzing your system for 0:06:14 (h:mm:ss)


_________________________________________________________________________________________________________
System Information
_________________________________________________________________________________________________________
Computer name:                                        PC
OS version:                                           Windows 7 , 6.1, build: 7600
CPU:                                                  GenuineIntel Intel(R) Core(TM)2 Quad CPU    Q6600  @ 2.40GHz
Logical processors:                                   4
RAM:                                                  8588353536 total
VM:                                                   2147352576, free: 1795424256


_________________________________________________________________________________________________________
CPU SPEED
_________________________________________________________________________________________________________
Reported CPU speed:                                   2400 MHz
Measured CPU speed:                                   2386 MHz

Note: reported execution times may be calculated based on a fixed reported CPU speed. Disable variable speed settings like Intel Speed Step and AMD Cool N Quiet in the BIOS setup for more accurate results.


_________________________________________________________________________________________________________
MEASURED KERNEL TIMER LATENCIES
_________________________________________________________________________________________________________
Highest measured kernel timer latency (µs):           16137.6136


_________________________________________________________________________________________________________
MEASURED SMIs AND CPU STALLS
_________________________________________________________________________________________________________
Highest measured SMI routine or CPU stall (µs)        9282.4451


_________________________________________________________________________________________________________
REPORTED DPCs
_________________________________________________________________________________________________________
Highest DPC routine execution time (µs):              18617.7112
Driver with highest DPC routine execution time:       ntoskrnl.exe - NT Kernel & System, Microsoft Corporation

Highest reported total DPC routine time (%):          1.8613
Driver with highest DPC total execution time:         ntoskrnl.exe - NT Kernel & System, Microsoft Corporation

Total time spent in DPCs (%)                          2.6481

DPC count (execution time <250 µs):                   1524217
DPC count (execution time 250-500 µs):                0
DPC count (execution time 500-999 µs):                6150
DPC count (execution time 1000-1999 µs):              1867
DPC count (execution time 2000-3999 µs):              2806
DPC count (execution time >=4000 µs):                 0


_________________________________________________________________________________________________________
REPORTED ISRs
_________________________________________________________________________________________________________
Highest ISR routine execution time (µs):              12051.3637
Driver with highest ISR routine execution time:       hal.dll - Hardware Abstraction Layer DLL, Microsoft Corporation

Highest reported total ISR routine time (%):          0.1094
Driver with highest ISR total time:                   dxgkrnl.sys - DirectX Graphics Kernel, Microsoft Corporation

Total time spent in ISRs (%)                          0.3370

ISR count (execution time <250 µs):                   716374
ISR count (execution time 250-500 µs):                0
ISR count (execution time 500-999 µs):                1129
ISR count (execution time 1000-1999 µs):              310
ISR count (execution time 2000-3999 µs):              212
ISR count (execution time >=4000 µs):                 0


_________________________________________________________________________________________________________
REPORTED HARD PAGEFAULTS
_________________________________________________________________________________________________________
Process with highest pagefault count:                 none

Total number of hard pagefaults                       626
Hard pagefault count of hardest hit process:          412
Highest hard pagefault resolution time (µs):          105360.1354
Total time spent in hard pagefaults (%):              0.4302
TODO: Number of processes hit:                        0


_________________________________________________________________________________________________________
PER CPU DATA
_________________________________________________________________________________________________________
CPU 0 ISR count:                                      462225
CPU 0 ISR highest execution time:                     12051.3637
CPU 0 ISR total execution time:                       2176619.2500
CPU 0 DPC count:                                      1311390
CPU 0 DPC highest execution time:                     16591.7062
CPU 0 DPC total execution time:                       12754623.8624
_________________________________________________________________________________________________________
CPU 1 ISR count:                                      85335
CPU 1 ISR highest execution time:                     10944.4424
CPU 1 ISR total execution time:                       841167.3262
CPU 1 DPC count:                                      76507
CPU 1 DPC highest execution time:                     14420.4675
CPU 1 DPC total execution time:                       8522426.2312
_________________________________________________________________________________________________________
CPU 2 ISR count:                                      84898
CPU 2 ISR highest execution time:                     11612.4074
CPU 2 ISR total execution time:                       1003799.5950
CPU 2 DPC count:                                      66532
CPU 2 DPC highest execution time:                     18617.7112
CPU 2 DPC total execution time:                       9068796.5587
_________________________________________________________________________________________________________
CPU 3 ISR count:                                      85670
CPU 3 ISR highest execution time:                     10343.9137
CPU 3 ISR total execution time:                       1026918.6937
CPU 3 DPC count:                                      82921
CPU 3 DPC highest execution time:                     14883.7120
CPU 3 DPC total execution time:                       9317775.9740

Re: Crackling problem with FF400 & Win7x64

I fixed your image link. Looks like the video driver is the worst offender. NVidia is often a bad choice for DAW use lately, but you may be able to find an older or newer driver that behaves. Or it may be better if you uninstall the video driver and let Win 7 find a driver from Microsoft. Check the "drivers" tab in LatencyMon for more details.

Regards,
Jeff Petersen
Synthax Inc.

Re: Crackling problem with FF400 & Win7x64

OK, I'm working on that... I'll say something as soon as I know.

By the way, you say about the nVidia driver: what about ntoskrnl.exe?? I don't know what it is, but it gets the highest values.

Thanks again.

Re: Crackling problem with FF400 & Win7x64

Not solved: with the nVidia drivers uninstalled and the "standard VGA" drivers provided by Windows the problem persists... and the video has poor quality (obvious).

10 (edited by Masaaki 2011-12-11 23:04:07)

Re: Crackling problem with FF400 & Win7x64

Have you tried legacy 1394 driver?

Also, what is exactly the model/manufacturer of the 1394 controller card? Does it have Texas Instrument chip or others like VIA, Ricoh, Jmicron?

Re: Crackling problem with FF400 & Win7x64

Yep, I read it in other thread of the forum (I tried to find a solution before posting my problem) and things got worse: instead of a simple crackling from time to time when "charging" the computer, the crackles were more and more constant and finally the sound became a constant "beeeeeep" that I could only stop by switching off the speakers and recovering the previous 1394 driver.

As with the rest of the system, I checked the drivers of the PCI 1394 card and it was up to date... http://www.conceptronic.net/product.php … ;linkid=25. I don't get the difference between the "standard" driver and the "legacy" one or why they don't offer the same results. In any case, I've already tried this and the problem wasn't solved.

Re: Crackling problem with FF400 & Win7x64

I've tried the legacy driver again and now the results are different: it seems to work fine but instead of crackling, both the sound and the video start playing in fast motion (funny). Pause+resume and working fine again... until next time. sad

Re: Crackling problem with FF400 & Win7x64

Well, the card has VIA chip, which is not so bad, but I still recommend to get TI chip cards.

Do you see the same DPC latency spike even you remove the 1394 PCI card?

Re: Crackling problem with FF400 & Win7x64

josubepau wrote:

I've tried the legacy driver again and now the results are different: it seems to work fine but instead of crackling, both the sound and the video start playing in fast motion (funny). Pause+resume and working fine again... until next time. sad

oh, okay....how about the DPC latency spikes?

Re: Crackling problem with FF400 & Win7x64

In fact, the "standard" driver appears as "Texas Instruments" http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/68 … t03ud.jpg/, but the "legacy" version don't http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/14 … ot02u.jpg/. Tomorrow I'll remove and uninstall the PCI card and prove the DPC latency spikes... in any case if I remove the card I have no FireWire port, so I couldn't plug the FF400.

Re: Crackling problem with FF400 & Win7x64

josubepau wrote:

Tomorrow I'll remove and uninstall the PCI card and prove the DPC latency spikes... in any case if I remove the card I have no FireWire port, so I couldn't plug the FF400.

I know, but at least, you can isolate the problem is with the PCI card/driver or something else.
I usually check DPC latency test before installing anything (cards, software, peripherals), and spend a day or two to see if I don't get any strange spikes overnight. BIOS tweaks are done right after the installation of OS and video drivers. Optimizing this way, I know what kind of add on caused problems.

Re: Crackling problem with FF400 & Win7x64

Hi again:

Well, as I said I've opened the CPU and removed the "extra" PCI/PCI-e cards from the system and even the second HDD. I've also uninstalled any software related with both cards. Now the system is running with the motherboard, the RAM and the main HDD. The on-board VGA card and network adapter are working, but I've disabled the sound card (Realtek High Definition audio) since obviously I can't "unplug" it.

In a beginning it seemed to work, since the DPC latency checker showed results between 0-500 and some peaks below 1k. But when I've started making screenshots, surfing websites and opening random folders in C: the bars have turned red and once again I'm having results around 16k.
http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/10 … t04qs.jpg/
http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/83 … ot07f.jpg/

The LatencyMon keeps showing the same results, with the ISR between 11-12k (hal.dll) and the DPC beyond 18k (ntoskrnl.exe) and the other readings in red values.
http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/94 … ot06m.jpg/
http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/83 … ot08c.jpg/

The motherboard drivers are supposed to be up to date (I don't find new options), but by elimination it seems the problem is in this device.

Is there any tool to scan the motherboard, the chipset or whatever related??

Thanks.

Re: Crackling problem with FF400 & Win7x64

Hi again:

After a thousand tests at home and with the problem going on, I decided to take the computer to the support center, hoping they could find a solution. As they had told me, it seems to be a incompatibility problem between the motherboard and the graphic card... both of them Gigabyte HeadScratch, so they are going to test different motherboard-graphic combinations to see if the can solve the problem.

Jeff told in #7 "NVidia is often a bad choice for DAW use lately", so I would like to know which is the best option for using Cubase, Kontakt, BFD2... and whatever that could come (one never knows). It should have more or less the same specs/price than the GT440 and offer the same results, since I use the PC not only for "music making/playing" but also for general purpose: listening music, watching video, surfing the web and sometimes even playing video games.

Thanks again!!

Re: Crackling problem with FF400 & Win7x64

Hi,
The ATI/AMD Radeon 5000 series in general work well for DAW and general computer use.
If your doing any heavy gaming or video editing then the Nvidia GTX 400 and 500 series are the best bet.
The GTX cards do not suffer from the same issues that lower budget Nvidia cards seem too lately.
They are heavy duty gaming cards though and require beefy power supplies. They are of no use or benefit for some one using their system as a DAW or general home computer.

Thanks Chris

Chris Ludwig
North East USA Sales | Synthax/RME
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Twitter @RMEAmericas