• snazz
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Topic: HDSPE Madi + TCO card as stem recorder BAD SYNC

I mounted one Hdspe Madi card with TCO on Intel mac Pro with MacOS 10.5.8 and Protools 9 software to use as stem recorder for 35mm 5.1 for a total of 28 tracks (total mix, vocals, m+e and fx, music, stereo total mix, stereo mix without vocals).
Recording is right but I observe when recording the initial BIP from dolby film it is recorded with 2 frames advanced?
original time stamp for bip is on 58 mn 00 sec 00 frames and it is recorded on stem in 57 mn 00 sec 22 frames, like was advanced 2 frames.

master is an euphonix fussion, slaves are protools HD and protools 9 madi.
word clock master it's one Rosendahl nanosyncs HD who sends: Pal video sync, 48 kHz word clock and 25 fps.

TCO are using video sync from rosendahl and Madi settings are autosync and TCO as prefered sync, last 3.01 driver and firmware 25.


I observe when is in autosync all sync status: MADI, TCO, are in sync if I turn unit as master then both goes to lock.

anybody from RME can comment where is the possible fail on this setup.
I don't understand, sounds is like a little echo by this 2 frames difference not the classical phasing sound.

2 Reply by MC

  • MC
  • MC
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Re: HDSPE Madi + TCO card as stem recorder BAD SYNC

There is nothing wrong. You will see a different offset depending on which software you use. Additionaly under Mac the TCO works with MTC, which has limited resoulution. AFAIK this offset has to be adjusted within PT, there should be settings to do that.

Regards
Matthias Carstens
RME

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  • snazz
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Re: HDSPE Madi + TCO card as stem recorder BAD SYNC

thanks Matthias, so is there an RME limitation on apple or is there a limitation imposed by several brands like avid or steinberg?
so If driver uses TCO as MTC reader, we are lost all about word clock sync, etc, etc, I thought TCO would offers to my system a more accurate timing read using standard time code. Are RMe working on this direction?

4 Reply by MC

  • MC
  • MC
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Re: HDSPE Madi + TCO card as stem recorder BAD SYNC

I don't see where you are lost, and having a constant frame offset of 2 is better than what you usually get from MTC. Sample accurate positioning requires ASIO Positioning Protocol, which obviously is not available under Mac OS.

Regards
Matthias Carstens
RME

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  • snazz
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Re: HDSPE Madi + TCO card as stem recorder BAD SYNC

Matthias last question about this matter, asio positioning is a limitation for apple mac os, or is a limitation by rme driver design?
if you answer about rme driver design, are you working on it? if we are only talking about some time to wait, I could accept.

  • Jeff
  • Jeff
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Re: HDSPE Madi + TCO card as stem recorder BAD SYNC

APP is in Windows only, on the Mac platform you only have MTC available for time code.

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Jeff Petersen
Synthax Inc.

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  • Hugh
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Re: HDSPE Madi + TCO card as stem recorder BAD SYNC

Hello snazz,

APP is windows only, on the Mac there is only MTC.  We use a MacPro in the same way you do except with two RME madi cards for 128 tracks of record and it works well; the operators prefer it over the Win7 machines. 
Note that in your case you mentioned a 2 frame offset - I'm not sure where this is happening on your particular system, as MC said it's probably software related, but using MTC and the right software sync is pretty tight.  In a 10-pass sync test our worse case sync difference is around 3ms, and the average variation is around 1 ms.  This is using Nuendo and the TCO card.
If you find your offset problem it's possible ProTools will be tight but I don't know PT's performance using MTC.

Hugh