• Registered: 2007-08-21
  • Posts: 10

Topic: Direct monitoring a tack within Cubase with Fireface 800

Okay, I hate to admit it I'm lost. I am trying to direct monitor a track in Cubase5 but experiencing a massive delay. I have my fireface buffer size set low and I olny see 2ms of delay from the card. I am assuming it's a double monitoring issue but I can not seem to figure it out. I have the mono input channel on the Fireface assigned to the phones left and right within the matrix and I am muting the input so as to not hear it via the Fireface. When I know select direct monitoring on the track I hear the massive delay. I've tried different assignments in the matrix but I'm lost. Is there anyone who uses Cubase that can assist me with the correct setup in the Fireface?

  • Knut
  • Knut
  • DAW Mastermind
  • Offline
  • Registered: 2007-04-06
  • Posts: 1,618

Re: Direct monitoring a tack within Cubase with Fireface 800

Click the monitoring output (= phones output) in submix mode (it gets brighter) and check the mute button of the input.
You can hear the signal through TotalMix (= delay) when you now set the fader of the input to 0 dB?

best regards
Knut

  • Registered: 2007-08-21
  • Posts: 10

Re: Direct monitoring a tack within Cubase with Fireface 800

Thanks Admin Knut.
It appears that it is really latency and not a routing problem. Even with my buffer settings set low, 48 samples, I get an unacceptable input latency of 2.271 and output latency of 3.333. As well any setting below 256 I start to tax the processor when using lots of plugins. At 256 the latency is 6.271 input and 7.333 output! I'm not sure that there is a fix for this short of getting a different interface. I am using the current Asio driver 3.062 and hardware revision 2.77.

Windows 7 home premium
service pack 1
Intel i7 CPU 960@3.20 GHz
12.0 GB RAM
64/32 bit

Fireface 800 2.77/3.062 - using firewire 800

4 Reply by S-E Hansson (edited by S-E Hansson 2012-01-19 12:16:46)

  • From: Gothenburg, Sweden
  • Registered: 2007-05-01
  • Posts: 441

Re: Direct monitoring a tack within Cubase with Fireface 800

Hi,

In Cubase Devices / Device Setup /
where you select Fireface ASIO driver
under VST Audio System
second line Fireface 800

is "Direct Montoring" selected here/marked
show above Ports to the right in this dialog !?

regards S-EH

5 Reply by moleman (edited by moleman 2012-01-20 18:02:56)

  • Registered: 2007-08-21
  • Posts: 10

Re: Direct monitoring a tack within Cubase with Fireface 800

Thank you for your reply S-EH. I do not have the direct monitoring checked off in Cubase. I want to record listening via Cubase with efx's such as reverb. When I direct monitor via the Fireface 800 of course there is no latency. Or audible latency. I have been told that my latency specs are within an acceptable range as I listed above. If so, it may be acceptable for say midi, but for recording vocals it is unthinkable. Which brings me back to the original point. I'm hearing what sounds like at least 100ms of slap back or greater, which would lead me to suspect that it was a monitoring issue not a latency issue. And I fear although my grasp of totalmix and it's matrix is not perfect there's more to it than I'm understanding. I have the input (channel one) muted and the fader attenuated!. I'm listening via headphones from the hardware phone outs. The submix section is set to phones.My tracks are playing back in the software output section. It would seem to me that if I'm not direct monitoring this should all work. If anyone out there records direct in Cubase using totalmix I would love to find out step by step the setup.
Thank you

  • Registered: 2007-05-09
  • Posts: 174

Re: Direct monitoring a tack within Cubase with Fireface 800

There seem to be two issues here.

If you want to monitor via Cubase, through its effects, there will inevitably be at least a few ms latency.  Most performers tolerate this.  Some, particularly "acoustic" performers who prefer a low level in their headphones while tracking, find it unacceptable.  Their only practical option, if they like to hear a little "comfort" reverv while tracking, is to arrange this through an external hardware effects unit, independently of Cubase.  This can be set up in TotalMix.  If you also use an external mixer it may be easier to set it up there.

The 100ms slap-echo is coming from somewhere else.

  • From: Houston, TX
  • Registered: 2007-05-11
  • Posts: 1,191

Re: Direct monitoring a tack within Cubase with Fireface 800

Agreed - 100ms is NOT coming from ASIO.  If you can distinctly "hear" the headpones as a seperate sound event from the acoustic sound in the air, then the Haas effect basically dictates you are likely hearing more than 20-30ms of latency.  Once you get below 10ms, the "realtime" feel is generaly intact, but I prefer to keep it as low as possible 24/7 (32-Sample ASIO for everything but rendering the final mix).

I know I had numerous stumbling blocks on my way to a fully native monitoring setup.  The main one was to be VERY CAREFUL with your plug-in selection on such projects.  There are lots of plug-ins that add high (or not so high) amounts of delay, and since most DAW's use PDC to keep everything aligned, this delay renders itself as latency across ALL inputs when monitoring!!!

Also, even plug-ins with smaller 32-sample delays can have their latency effects become "additive" if they are bussed in such a manner that requires the PDC latencies to be offset accordingly.  However, I run anywhere from 3-4 Plugs that have 32-Sample Delays and my realtime latency is still very tight.

In Cubase, you can easily get an inventory of all of your used plug-ins in a session:  Click on "Devices / Plugin information".  You can organize the view by clicking on the "# Of Instances" column, and all of the active Plug-ins will be at the top.  Then, reference the "Latency" column to see if you have any latent plug-ins running.  I generally move the Latency Column next to the "#" column for easy viewing.

If you see some highly-latent plug-ins, that's your problem.  Find a lower latency version of the effect to use while tracking - or just find a low-latency version and sick with it for mixing, too (generally what I do).  You can also "Constrain Delay Compensation" in Cubase, but that makes the mix sound like crap IMNSHO (and a good sounding "Wet" mix for the talent is what ITB Monitoring is all about!!!)...

You should be fine with a proper session setup IMNSO (Speaking as someone that doesn't even have a mixer in his studio and NEVER uses Direct Monitoring!!!).  The CPU limitations at low ASIO latencies can be an issue - but I counter with cost-effective overclocking of "Bang for your buck" PC components and kick them into the stratosphere of performance for pennies on the dollar! :-)  A match made in heaven...

Good luck! cool

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