• Registered: 2007-05-08
  • Posts: 34

Topic: Fireface 800 crashes with legacy drivers windows

I have recently upgraded my entire system. My new mother board does not have fire so I have installed a pci firewire card. Actually I have 2 firewire cards, both of which give me the same errors.

If I don't use legacy I get no sound, but the card is in device manager with no apparent issues.

If I use Legacy drivers it all appears the same until I play a sound, then it crashes and the mixers lights all flash and hang.

I am on Windows 7 build 7600. 64bit, Motherboard is Gigabyte X58a-OC which has only 1 standard PCI slot where the firewire cards have been tried.

The chip on the one that is not in the computer currently reads NEC.

Any ideas any one??

Thanks

2 Reply by hotliquer (edited by hotliquer 2012-02-01 06:39:01)

  • Registered: 2007-05-08
  • Posts: 34

Re: Fireface 800 crashes with legacy drivers windows

I have run the Latency checker and found that I have red spikes every 5 second. I have disabled all that I can from device manager with out losing control of the system, but the spikes prevail.

I have also moved my graphics card to another slot hoping it may be the cause, but still not working.

  • vinark
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Re: Fireface 800 crashes with legacy drivers windows

Did you by any chance install a gigabyte utility for overclocking or power management?
These are known to cause this issues.
Or could you try and remove the firewire card, not connect the fireface (obviously) and see how dpc behaves now

Vincent, Amsterdam
https://soundcloud.com/thesecretworld
BFpro fs, 2X HDSP9652 ADI-8AE, 2X HDSP9632
  • Registered: 2007-05-08
  • Posts: 34

Re: Fireface 800 crashes with legacy drivers windows

Thanks for the reply Vinark. There was something like over-clocking soft-ware installed with the motherboard of which I am not really interested in. I did switch off the Fireface and also disabled it in device manager and also disabled the fire-wire card in device manager but could not get rid of the red spikes. I am going to try uninstalling the bundled mother board software now.

  • Registered: 2007-05-08
  • Posts: 34

Re: Fireface 800 crashes with legacy drivers windows

Unfortunately uninstalling "Easytune" from Gigabyte didn't solve my sound card problem, but the red peaks in DPC Latency Checker have gone.

6 Reply by vinark (edited by vinark 2012-02-01 11:07:39)

  • vinark
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Re: Fireface 800 crashes with legacy drivers windows

That is good news cause with the red spikes it would never ever work. Now my thoughts on this is that it is a PCI slot issue. If you have any chance to try a PCIe firewire card, I would certainly try that. Another thing to try is the latest bios for the motherboard, cause that sometimes fixes issues like this. (but always flash from usb or floppy never from windows).

Vincent, Amsterdam
https://soundcloud.com/thesecretworld
BFpro fs, 2X HDSP9652 ADI-8AE, 2X HDSP9632
  • Registered: 2007-05-08
  • Posts: 34

Re: Fireface 800 crashes with legacy drivers windows

I don't have a PCIe firewire card to test. I would have to buy one. Though I would be reluctant to buy any old one as I see many issues and advice on what not to have etc. Is there any specific hardware cards that are widely known to work? I have heard a lot of people saying Texas Instruments, but finding that sort of information from a website selling branded cards maybe tricky and I would still feel unsure of what one to get even if I did see TI.

Thanks for your thoughts and advice smile

  • Registered: 2007-05-08
  • Posts: 34

Re: Fireface 800 crashes with legacy drivers windows

I have a question about FireWire cards. Both of my cards have power sockets. I tried it with the power socket connect initially, but windows didn't see either card. Is this right?

  • vinark
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Re: Fireface 800 crashes with legacy drivers windows

I never used the power connection on the cards but that is not how it should work of course. It should just give extra power to the FW ports.
I have a cheap sweex PCIe firewire card that has a via chipset, it works with a liquidmix and a Tascam firewire audio interface, but I don´t have a fireface.
Where do you live? A lot of shops advertise the TI chipset. A lot of local shops here in Amsterdam give the possibility to try and return if not working.

Vincent, Amsterdam
https://soundcloud.com/thesecretworld
BFpro fs, 2X HDSP9652 ADI-8AE, 2X HDSP9632
  • Registered: 2007-05-08
  • Posts: 34

Re: Fireface 800 crashes with legacy drivers windows

I am in the UK. The one inside my machine right now is VIA. I wonder if its an IRQ problem. I had this a few years ago and found moving my sound card to a different pci slot worked. This motherboard has only one regular PCI and 4 PCIe.

  • vinark
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Re: Fireface 800 crashes with legacy drivers windows

Probably not an IRQ issue. There are some known PCI issues on recent intel chipsets, but I`m not sure if this MB has them. But if that is the cause getting a PCIe firewire card would fix it. Most internet shops don`t mind returns.

Vincent, Amsterdam
https://soundcloud.com/thesecretworld
BFpro fs, 2X HDSP9652 ADI-8AE, 2X HDSP9632
  • bonis
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  • Registered: 2012-02-02
  • Posts: 58

Re: Fireface 800 crashes with legacy drivers windows

The Fireface internally uses a TI (Texas) chipset,
probabily NEC or TI down on synchronize the start transfer procedure,
can you do test with a card equipped with a TI chip?

Bonis

www.bonisaudio.com

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  • Registered: 2007-05-08
  • Posts: 34

Re: Fireface 800 crashes with legacy drivers windows

I dont have a TI chip to test. I am probs gonna go and buy another card (4th one). I gotta be honest, Ive had this sound card over 5 years now and it brought with it many many weeks of not working due to one thing or another. I know its great and all that, but geez!!!!

  • bonis
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  • Registered: 2012-02-02
  • Posts: 58

Re: Fireface 800 crashes with legacy drivers windows

hotliquer wrote:

I dont have a TI chip to test. I am probs gonna go and buy another card (4th one). I gotta be honest, Ive had this sound card over 5 years now and it brought with it many many weeks of not working due to one thing or another. I know its great and all that, but geez!!!!

I use a Asus SABERTOOTH - Intel I5 3GHZ - Corsair Dominator DDR3 - Digitus Pci-Express FW800 - SONAR X1 STUDIO

and all work fine.... :-D

www.bonisaudio.com

bonis's Website

  • Registered: 2007-05-08
  • Posts: 34

Re: Fireface 800 crashes with legacy drivers windows

I have Gigabyte X58a OC, Intel I7 3.2, 24gig Corsair Vengence DDR3,  Cubase... No sound for 3 days so far. God knows what's wrong??

  • bonis
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Re: Fireface 800 crashes with legacy drivers windows

Hotliquer have you already installed the new firmware and new drivers ?

the fireface setting app sometimes gets snookered DeadHorse

www.bonisaudio.com

bonis's Website

  • Registered: 2007-05-08
  • Posts: 34

Re: Fireface 800 crashes with legacy drivers windows

Yes I updated it before my problems

  • From: Connecticut, USA
  • Registered: 2011-08-01
  • Posts: 376

Re: Fireface 800 crashes with legacy drivers windows

Hi,
I would be looking at your Overclocking settings, DDR3 memory timing and BIO power management settings.
What is the exact model Intel CPU you have?

Thanks Chris

Chris Ludwig
North East USA Sales | Synthax/RME
www.facebook.com/RMEAmericas
Twitter @RMEAmericas

ChrisLudwig's Website

  • bonis
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  • Registered: 2012-02-02
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Re: Fireface 800 crashes with legacy drivers windows

It easy, try with no overclock, use MoBo BIOS in DEFAULT SETTING.. if problem persist is not the right way.

www.bonisaudio.com

bonis's Website

  • From: Connecticut, USA
  • Registered: 2011-08-01
  • Posts: 376

Re: Fireface 800 crashes with legacy drivers windows

Hi,
You should be careful before using factory defaults. All of your drive controllers will reset itself to IDE and/or AHCI which depending on what mode the driver controller was in when you installed windows your OS could be left in an un-bootable state.
You will need to switch the drive controllers back tot he state to the state they were in before you reset. So you should take note on these settings before you restore to factory defaults.

Also the motherboard power management settings are not  optimal for pro audio use  in their factory default state.

Thanks Chris

Chris Ludwig
North East USA Sales | Synthax/RME
www.facebook.com/RMEAmericas
Twitter @RMEAmericas

ChrisLudwig's Website

  • Registered: 2007-05-08
  • Posts: 34

Re: Fireface 800 crashes with legacy drivers windows

I have not over clocked this motherboard as of yet. Seems a shame that I bought a motherboard for over clocking and will not be able to use it with the soundcard. Well now I know eh.

  • Registered: 2007-05-08
  • Posts: 34

Re: Fireface 800 crashes with legacy drivers windows

I have an intel I7 960. I'm starting to wonder if I am gonna have to change motherboard and CPU I might as well go back to Soundblaster! I just ordered a PCIe firewire card. This will be the last thing I do . If it don't work I will simply not use it. Too much time wasted getting it to work.

  • From: Connecticut, USA
  • Registered: 2011-08-01
  • Posts: 376

Re: Fireface 800 crashes with legacy drivers windows

Hi,
I PM'd you with some options to try on your board first.

Thanks Chris

Chris Ludwig
North East USA Sales | Synthax/RME
www.facebook.com/RMEAmericas
Twitter @RMEAmericas

ChrisLudwig's Website

  • Registered: 2007-05-08
  • Posts: 34

Re: Fireface 800 crashes with legacy drivers windows

These settings have stopped me from being able to boot. I'm not sure what the settings were at before now. It say that the system has experienced boot failures because of overclocking or changes of voltages!

I hadn't done any overclocking until this point.

I need a new sound card!

25 Reply by bonis (edited by bonis 2012-02-05 14:51:27)

  • bonis
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  • Registered: 2012-02-02
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Re: Fireface 800 crashes with legacy drivers windows

when you will install the new card inside of Control Panel you have to see this
description :
http://mdc.custhelp.com/euf/assets/images/KB18762_1.png
and the pci-e compatibility (small pci-e connector on MoBo) must be set with 2x or less in the bios.

with the new Intel chipset, unlike before, all irq are managed from a single chip on Mobo,
so there are fewer compatibility issues, especially for pci-e connector.

Bonis


not change this card,
in this price range, other cards of this quality do not exist,
(in my opinion, RME may update the analog in/out opamp on the board with more modern components (but is only the my opinion) ),
the board is one of the best external cards on the market,
unless your card is not damaged, i assure you ...it works great.

www.bonisaudio.com

bonis's Website

  • From: Connecticut, USA
  • Registered: 2011-08-01
  • Posts: 376

Re: Fireface 800 crashes with legacy drivers windows

Hi Hotliquer,


The only settings that would give the you Over clock failed message at start up are the following.
Set them to [AUTO].

QPI Clock Ratio   [AUTO]
Uncore Clock Ratio [AUTO]
System Memory Multiplier (SPD) [AUTO]
Extreme Memory Profile(X.M.P.) [AUTO]
CPU Vcore     [AUTO]
QPI/Vtt Voltage [AUTO]
DRAM Voltage [AUTO]

This will run the most stable timings for the you ram and CPU.
When running 24 gigs of ram memory timing issues become more likely. You usually have to set them lower for stability even though you memory is rated for a higher specification that spec is not tested by the ram manufacturers with more than 8 gigs in the system.


If you had your drive controller set to IDE instead of AHCI or RAID Windows will give you a blue screen at start up if you choose something other than IDE.
You just need to switch it back to IDE.


The red spikes have nothing to do with the RME interface or the Firewire PCI card.
The issues you are having are due o your BIOs and/or Windows settings.

The info I sent you via email if done correctly will stop the red spikes unless there is something wrong with one of the computer components.

iI the the motherboard is still not booting reliably then I would take it to a qualified computer technician for them to test the motherboard, ram and CPU and replace if necessary.


Thanks Chris

Chris Ludwig
North East USA Sales | Synthax/RME
www.facebook.com/RMEAmericas
Twitter @RMEAmericas

ChrisLudwig's Website

  • Registered: 2007-05-08
  • Posts: 34

Re: Fireface 800 crashes with legacy drivers windows

Thanks for all the suggestions. I am still not there yet though.

After having the CMOS reset on my board and buying my 5th firewire card, I can play sound, but after a random amount of time, sometimes 2 minutes, sometimes half an hour the computer freezes, usually when I am playing music on spotify or watching a video, but still does it without sound playing, but not as often.

I have disabled the audio codec in the bios, though High Def Audio (I think HDMI) is still installed in device manager. I have disabled this is device manager.

Still it crashes all the time. I cannot do any work with this sound card switched on.

I did try your setting Chris, but I could not get into the bios after following the instructions. The instructions are hard to follow as they are for gigabyte x58a-ud3r and mine is gigabyte x58a-oc.

I have no idea what I can do?

  • Registered: 2007-05-08
  • Posts: 34

Re: Fireface 800 crashes with legacy drivers windows

Chris do you have any advise on what I should try in the bios first? When you sent the email to start with. I went into the bios and changed everything from the instructions that was in my bios. When I restarted I had just a black screen. Can you post them on here? I do not have them in my email account anymore.

29 Reply by hotliquer (edited by hotliquer 2012-02-22 21:03:58)

  • Registered: 2007-05-08
  • Posts: 34

Re: Fireface 800 crashes with legacy drivers windows

I updated my Graphics Card drivers hoping the HDMI sound would fix it. It was OK for over 24 hours, but just crashed again in the same fashion. Yet again I am booting up from a crash, losing any settings and work I had done. This sucks. RME Fireface800 has no guarantee of working. Anyone want to buy mine??

  • From: Connecticut, USA
  • Registered: 2011-08-01
  • Posts: 376

Re: Fireface 800 crashes with legacy drivers windows

Hi,
Sorry I missed you previous post.

If I use Legacy drivers it all appears the same until I play a sound, then it crashes and the mixers lights all flash and hang.

Do you mean the lights on the front of the FF800?

Have you tried the FF800 with the on board Via FW without the PCI/PCI-e card installed?

. I did switch off the Fireface and also disabled it in device manager and also disabled the fire-wire card in device manager but could not get rid of the red spikes.

This to me would make it seem like there is an inherent issue with your motherboard and/or a computer component.
I would bring it to a computer shop and have them thoroughly test troubleshoot the Ram, hard drives, motherboard and especially the power supply.
I would do this even if you decide not to keep the Fireface 800.

Thanks Chris

Chris Ludwig
North East USA Sales | Synthax/RME
www.facebook.com/RMEAmericas
Twitter @RMEAmericas

ChrisLudwig's Website

  • Registered: 2007-05-08
  • Posts: 34

Re: Fireface 800 crashes with legacy drivers windows

The mixer light flashing thing was before I got my PCIe card. I got rid of the red spikes as I stated before after I un installed the over clock software. This is a fresh install of windows, only 3 days ago. I have not installed any of the extras with the motherboard.

The motherboard is brand new. It performs flawlessly with all other tasks. Though if I am playing music I have a much lesser chance of saving work that I am working on. There seems to be nothing else I can do, unless in the previous mail you sent there is a setting that(on its own makes my sound card work) but I feel that its the end of the road of my time with RME. I have been without stable sound now for nearly a month and god know how many other hours before this to get it to work.

I have material that I need to record but I don't even have a stable enough system to run with even the simplest of tasks; system sounds.

  • From: Connecticut, USA
  • Registered: 2011-08-01
  • Posts: 376

Re: Fireface 800 crashes with legacy drivers windows

Hi,
So the Mixer light flashing was the front panel of the Fireface 800?
Do you still have the older system or some other in the house or a friends that you can test the FF800 on?
It would be unfortunate to find out that you still suffer from these issues after replacing the FF800.

Thanks Chris

Chris Ludwig
North East USA Sales | Synthax/RME
www.facebook.com/RMEAmericas
Twitter @RMEAmericas

ChrisLudwig's Website

  • Registered: 2007-05-08
  • Posts: 34

Re: Fireface 800 crashes with legacy drivers windows

The mixer lights flashing means the mixer lights flashing. The actual Mixer inside of windows. (Fireface Mixer). Not the physical hardware. This was fixed before I changed Firewire cards.

I have my old system up and running. Fireface runs OK on it and still does.

  • Registered: 2011-05-31
  • Posts: 21

Re: Fireface 800 crashes with legacy drivers windows

hotliquer wrote:

I have my old system up and running. Fireface runs OK on it and still does.

So, isn't it obvious that the problem is the new PC? Just sayin'... smile
I would suspect first, like Chris said, the power supply. Is it possible for you to replace the power supply with the one from your old system?

  • Registered: 2007-05-08
  • Posts: 34

Re: Fireface 800 crashes with legacy drivers windows

This crashing was not happening before I got my PCIe firewire card. Also I do not crash when I have the FF switched off. I have been using Cubase for the last week. I am crashing far more often when processing audio.

I need to know if my motherboard is setup right. As chris said.

I cannot process audio. I cannot record. I cannot reliably use my system with the fireface switched on.

  • From: Connecticut, USA
  • Registered: 2011-08-01
  • Posts: 376

Re: Fireface 800 crashes with legacy drivers windows

Hi,
The best way to test you FF800 at this point is to test it on a different system that you know works fine for audio.
If it is working fine with other systems then it is not the source of your issues.

Does this PCI-e Firewire card have a 4 pin power connector on the back-end?
With any card I've used you have to connect this to your Power supply for the card to function correctly.

Have you tried another PCI-e slot for the Firewire card? It will work in any of the 16x or 1x slots on the board.

Have you tried totally removing the firewire card and just using the on board firewire port?

If you did any of this and it is still not working then there is definitely something wrong with some of your computer hardware.
I would bring it to a computer shop to test the power supply, memory and motherboard.

Thanks Chris

Chris Ludwig
North East USA Sales | Synthax/RME
www.facebook.com/RMEAmericas
Twitter @RMEAmericas

ChrisLudwig's Website

  • Registered: 2007-05-08
  • Posts: 34

Re: Fireface 800 crashes with legacy drivers windows

I have been testing my computer for the last week without the fireface switched on. No crashes. I do not have anything else that uses firewire. My previous firewire cards had power sockets at the back, but when connected i could not even boot. There is nothing wrong with my PC components. I decided to route the on board sound to the fireface (not connected by firewire) so that I can at least hear music with my Mackie Studio monitors. Upon looking for the lead to connect a 3.5 jack to the fireface I found another firewire card (PCI) this works! It was the firewire card all along.

I don't think anyone really knows which firewire cards are compatible. My current working card is VIA using Legacy drivers.

Since I bought the fireface I have bought 6 firewire cards! It has always been a problem with the cards. I have spent months on end trying out all the kind advise from people over the years. Sometimes it has given me more trouble than I had in the first place, but it always boils down to the firewire card. Something is up with compatibility.

As a side note when I had an asus motherboard with onboard firewire there was no problem. I have had most problems with Gigabyte motherboards and add on firewire cards.