Topic: Best RME option?

Hi,

I am looking for a solution to replace my current Tascam DM4800. What I basically need is a minimum of 8 analog line inputs to convert my hardware synths to my DAW (Cubase) to process the audio in real time. However it would be nice if I have the option to expand to 16 analog inputs. And of course the quality of the AD/DA converters must be great. Looking at the RME website tells me there are three candidates. But, before I go to the shop I would appreciate some answers

Multiface II
- Is it possible to expand this unit via ADAT or something to get 8 analog line inputs extra?
- Or is it possible to use two multiface units in one DAW simultaneously to get 16 inputs?
- This is the oldest candidate. So, how is the quality of the AD/DA converters compared to the UFX and UCX? I can read the specs, but prefer to hear this from people who have experience with both units.

UFX
- Standard 12 analog line inputs. However, 4 XLR. Do I only need to buy a special cable to use those four analog inputs as normal TRS inputs? Or is that not that simple?
- What is the best option to expand this unit for 8 extra analog inputs?

UCX
- Is it possible to use two UCX units in one DAW simultaneously to get 16 inputs?
- What are the other option to expand for 8 extra analog in?

Re: Best RME option?

MFII and FF400 owner here.

[q]- Is it possible to expand this unit via ADAT or something to get 8 analog line inputs extra?[/q]
Yes
MF2 has 1 ADAT input and 1 ADAT output, so answer is obvious.

[q]- Or is it possible to use two multiface units in one DAW simultaneously to get 16 inputs?[/q]
Answer is also yes, but it's a very different solution, as you cannot totally "integrate" the units. You won't be able to matrix-mix the channels from one unit on the other one using the internal mixer (totalmix). So I wouldn't recommend this option.

[q]- This is the oldest candidate. So, how is the quality of the AD/DA converters compared to the UFX and UCX? I can read the specs, but prefer to hear this from people who have experience with both units.[/q]
Enough for whatever you might need, including mastering. Even for that genetically engineered people with golden ears.

UFX
[q]- Standard 12 analog line inputs. However, 4 XLR. Do I only need to buy a special cable to use those four analog inputs as normal TRS inputs? Or is that not that simple?[/q]
It's that simple. It's a combo input, so you can directly use a jack connector there.
[q]- What is the best option to expand this unit for 8 extra analog inputs?[/q]
ADAT input. Use any kind of external converter

UCX
[q]- Is it possible to use two UCX units in one DAW simultaneously to get 16 inputs?[/q]
It "should" work. Not recommended. The same happens as with the MF2 case before. Driver should (I'm not sure how well with the USB ifaces; somebody with more knowledge should answer you here) supports multiple units simultaneously, so you can use multiple units using the same ASIO driver on your DAW, but it's not the same as using all of the input / outputs on a single unit.
[q]- What are the other option to expand for 8 extra analog in?[/q]
ADAT smile

Re: Best RME option?

I'm going to give you a few more subtle differences between the units that maybe you didn't detect while reading the specs.

The MFII, as the UFX and UCX, can be used on a desktop computer (via the PCIe or the PCI card) and on a laptop, via the XpressCard. Both work beautifully (I own both solutions). But remember that it's increasingly difficult to find notebooks with xpresscard slots today. On the other hand, you'll always find a USB slot on any computer. RME implementation of the data transfer through USB bus is of a very high quality, so don't think that getting a PCI or PCIe implementation will have less problems. Maybe that was true 5 - 8 years ago, but not today.

Second, and very important, the MFII cannot be used as a stand alone unit, while UFX and UCX can. That means that UFX and UCX can be effectively used as _external converters_. You can store routings from analog inputs to the ADATs; or they can be used as a matrix router. The MFII can only work while connected to the PCI/PCIe card.

Third, the MFII can only make use of the old Totalmix. There are certain features missing there, in comparison to the UFX and UCX. Also, no internal FX on the old MFII.

All these products have WC input and output, so you won't have problems synchronizing the units to any kind of external converter connected thru ADAT. Obviously, you can also use the clock signal comming thru the ADAT input as master clock. Or you can use the units as master clock for the external converters. If you've never used a RME unit before, you don't have an idea yet of the incredible flexibility they give you.

Re: Best RME option?

Thanks for your reply.

So in conclusion:

MF2:
-    You can expand via ADAT to get extra analog in (for example ADI-8)
-    Has about the same quality AD/DA converters like UFX/UCX (unless you have golden ears).
-    Cheapest overall solutions

UCX:
-    Cheapest USB solutions for 8 analog input (or 16 analog input using ADI-8)

UFX:
-    Cheapest USB solutions if 12 analog inputs is enough. The price per input seems to be cheaper than a UCX with a ADI-8.

That the unit can work standalone is for me not very important. About PCIe, i thought that this is still the most stable connection nowadays. I realize that it might be a problem over 5 years. But firewire is already abandoned on some of the newer motherboards. From what I read regarding the UFX is that USB is less stable and has more problems than the firewire connection.

If this is the case the MF2 looks like the best option. However, on the Internet I read from a lot of people, who updated from the FF800 to the UFX, claiming that the sound quality noticeable improved.

Re: Best RME option?

You're welcome.

Johan909 wrote:

Thanks for your reply.

So in conclusion:

MF2:
-    You can expand via ADAT to get extra analog in (for example ADI-8)
-    Has about the same quality AD/DA converters like UFX/UCX (unless you have golden ears).
-    Cheapest overall solutions

Correct. Remember that you only have 1 ADAT in, so you cannot use 96 KHz SMUX (once more, only needed for the golden ears smile
Can't say anything about prices right now. But the breakoutbox + PCIe or XpressCard should be near 750 € (at least in Europe)... That's almost the same as a FF400.
About quality ... New converters of course are better. Not only in the sense of a slightly better SNR and "less" THD, but there are a few subtle things that can be important for you. One, for example, is latency. New DACs and ADCs usually are a little bit faster than the old ones. Also, of course, hi-gain pre-amps on the UFX/UCX are just gorgeous, and are going to have lower noise figures and better than the older ones on the FF400/FF800, and this is really noticiable, specially at high gains.

[q]UCX:
-    Cheapest USB solutions for 8 analog input (or 16 analog input using ADI-8)
[/q]
Not sure cheapest. I think a UC is a little bit cheaper, isn't it? As with the MFII, no SMUX (only 1 ADAT)

[q]
UFX:
-    Cheapest USB solutions if 12 analog inputs is enough. The price per input seems to be cheaper than a UCX with a ADI-8.[/q]
The UFX is such a beast that referring only to its 12 analog inputs is almost a crime wink

[q]That the unit can work standalone is for me not very important. About PCIe, i thought that this is still the most stable connection nowadays. I realize that it might be a problem over 5 years. But firewire is already abandoned on some of the newer motherboards. From what I read regarding the UFX is that USB is less stable and has more problems than the firewire connection.[/q]
If you've taken a look at the forum, then I cannot add more. Yes, PCIe is yet the more stable solution. But you cannot use your unit live unless you invest on the XpressCard.

[q]If this is the case the MF2 looks like the best option. However, on the Internet I read from a lot of people, who updated from the FF800 to the UFX, claiming that the sound quality noticeable improved.[/q]
Sorry, but I don't believe it. The converters are better for sure, on paper and while using our marvellous Teks or Agilent oscilloscopes and measurement tools, but ... not when using your ears. The fact that some people actually hear a difference is a problem with our brain smile. http://youtu.be/BYTlN6wjcvQ

Of course, if you intend to use your unit not for musical purposes but as a data adquisition system, you could tell the difference smile.

Re: Best RME option?

obmun wrote:

Correct. Remember that you only have 1 ADAT in, so you cannot use 96 KHz SMUX

Yes, you can... cool
But only 4 channels.

Regards
Daniel Fuchs
RME

Regards
Daniel Fuchs
RME