Topic: Possible to get Zero Latency monitoring with Fireface UCX

Hi all,

I just bought the Fireface UCX.  I'm using it in my video suite with a HP Z800 (12 cores @ 2.66 Ghz), 12 GB ram.  I installed the latest driver and updated the firmware as instructed. 

Is it possible to have latency free monitoring of an analog input signal ??? Let me explain my set up.

I'm using a Kona 3 video card with analog and AES output.  Prior to getting the UCX, the picture and audio coming out of the Kona3 is perfectly in sync.  The analog audio output was fed directly to a volume controller and then to my monitors...as mentioned, the sync is tight and solid.

Now i was hoping to use the UCX as my mixer/volume controller so the analog out of the Kona3 goes into input 3-4 and i have it patched directly to PHone 7-8 via total mix, very basic and simple routing.  When monitoring there's a delay in the sound.  I'm i doing anything wrong ??  Does patching input to output completely bypass AD/DA, if so why i'm i getting delay ??

I suspect the input goes through AD, the totalmix mixer then DA.  This explains the slight delay caused by AD/DA...but if this is the case then RME is totally misleading its costumer because it is NOT zero latency monitoring.

Re: Possible to get Zero Latency monitoring with Fireface UCX

There is obviously no analog monitoring with Totalmix. But the latency caused by AD and DA is inaudible. If you have an audible delay, please measure it exactly and check whether it is constant. There must be another reason for the delay, e.g. in your software.

As for "misleading", let me quote what you could have read in the manual of the UCX:

"The term Zero Latency Monitoring has been introduced by RME in 1998 for the DIGI96 series
of audio cards. It stands for the ability to pass-through the computer's input signal at the inter-
face directly to the output. Since then, the idea behind has become one of the most important
features of modern hard disk recording. In the year 2000, RME published two ground-breaking
Tech Infos on the topics Low Latency Background, which are still up-to-date: Monitoring, ZLM
and ASIO, and Buffer and Latency Jitter, both found on the RME website.

How much Zero is Zero?
From a technical view there is no zero. Even the analog pass-through is subject to phase er-
rors,  equalling  a  delay  between  input  and  output.  However,  delays  below  certain  values  can
subjectively be claimed to be a zero-latency. This applies to analog routing and mixing, and in
our opinion also to RME's Zero Latency Monitoring. The term describes the digital path of the
audio data from the input of the interface to its output. The digital receiver of the Fireface UCX
can't  operate  un-buffered,  and  together  with  TotalMix  and  the  output  via  the  transmitter,  it
causes a typical delay of 3 samples. At 44.1 kHz this equals about 68 µs (0.000068 s), at 192
kHz only 15 µs. The delay is valid for ADAT and SPDIF in the same way.


Oversampling
While the delays of digital interfaces can be disregarded altogether, the analog inputs and out-
puts do cause a significant delay. Modern converter chips operate with 64 or 128 times over-
sampling plus digital filtering, in order to move the error-prone analog filters away from the au-
dible frequency range as far as possible. This typically generates a delay of one millisecond. A
playback and re-record of the same signal via DA and AD (loopback) then causes an offset of
the newly recorded track of about 2 ms.

Low Latency!
The Fireface UCX uses the latest AD converters having an innovative digital filter with a delay of
only 14 samples in Single and Double Speed, and 11 samples in Quad Speed. The DA con-
verter  even  exceeds  these  astonishing  values  with  only  7  samples  delay  in  all  modes.  (...)

Note that the total roundtrip delay of the unit from A to A will be a few samples higher. TotalMix
FX causes an additional delay of typically 3 samples as it stays always within the audio path. "


Regards
Daniel Fuchs
RME

Regards
Daniel Fuchs
RME

3 (edited by vudoo 2012-03-27 14:08:31)

Re: Possible to get Zero Latency monitoring with Fireface UCX

Daniel,

Thanks for the reply and explanation.  As mentioned in my post there is nothing other than your total mix in the chain, i'm basically just feeding the stereo analog out of my Kona3 video card into the input 3-4 on the UCX and patch that to output 7-8 (headphone) or output 1-2 to external monitors.  There's definitely a noticeable delay as the sound and pic is no longer in sync.  A very small delay ( maybe a few frames off) but never the less not workable in a professional environment. I have not measured the delay but it is definitely constant.

If i take the exact scenario above but instead of using the UCX, i use an analog mixer (our SSL) or a volume controller ( Dangerous monitor), the pic and sound sync is tight, no problem whatsoever.

You mentioned ''There must be another reason for the delay, e.g. in your software.'' but in the case above there's is no other software involved.  I'm simply using the UCX as a mixer/volume controller, so the ONLY thing in the chain is the UCX and Totalmix.  Would it make a difference if i unplug the UCX from the computer and use the unit as stand-alone ?? Thanks

Re: Possible to get Zero Latency monitoring with Fireface UCX

You will find the exact delay values in the manual. Please try to measure whether the delay you observe is equivalent...


Regards
Daniel Fuchs
RME

Regards
Daniel Fuchs
RME