Topic: Babyface with se2200a condenser: no signal

Hi all,

  I'm a bit of a novice with music recording (I usually record from neurons, which is a bit different!), and I've got a little problem.

  I just got a new Babyface, and all the TotalMix software installed fine on both XP and Windows 7. I first recorded from my SM57 with Nuendo, and everything worked correctly on both OS.

  Then I tried recording from a new se2200a condenser mic using the same XLR cable (3-pins, I assume balanced): I plugged in the mic, then switched on phantom power in the TotalMix program. The problem is that I get no signal coming from the mic, no sound coming through, even with the gain all the way up in TotalMix.

  What could be the problem? I thought of three possible culprits:

1) The double-USB connection to my PC isn't supplying enough power for phantom power. This seems unlikely, especially since my computer has a 750W power supply, which should be plenty good. The solution here would be to buy the external power supply for the babyface.

2) The XLR cable is bad. But it works fine for recording with the SM57, which does not require phantom power.

3) The mic is broken. When the mic is jostled (not shaken, I've been very careful with it), I get little blips of electrical noise on the channel, and I definitely hear when I turn the phantom power on (sounds like a capacitor charging). But no sound signal, even with gain up all the way.

Does anyone have any ideas about where the problem could be? It seems to me the best way would be to take the mic and cable back to the shop to test on their systems to identify if one of my parts is broken, but I won't have time to do that until next weekend, and I'd really like to start recording from the condenser immediately. I could just be missing something small in the TotalMix software I guess. Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated. Thanks!

Re: Babyface with se2200a condenser: no signal

Have you got another condenser mic to test this with? Are you sure the cable is balanced? If not, I believe you might actually cause damage to the mic.
As for power, the BF will power my AKG C414 B-ULS connected to just one USB connection of a Dell netbook...

Regards
Daniel Fuchs
RME

Regards
Daniel Fuchs
RME

Re: Babyface with se2200a condenser: no signal

Daniel,

  Thanks for your quick response. I took the mic and cable back to the shop where I got them, and they both work fine. So the problem is definitely the Babyface, specifically the phantom power, since the SM57 works fine on the same cable and input line. I guess that means I should try an external power supply. Anyone have any other ideas? Advice greatly appreciated. Thanks,

-Caleb

Re: Babyface with se2200a condenser: no signal

Have you got (access to) equipment to measure whether 48V phantom power is actually present where it ought to be?


Regards
Daniel Fuchs
RME

Regards
Daniel Fuchs
RME

Re: Babyface with se2200a condenser: no signal

Hi again,

  I've borrowed a voltmeter from work and it seems there is something wrong with the phantom power supply. On the breakout cable XLR analog line ins (no breakout cable extension, no extra XLR cable, just direct to the breakout cable), once phantom power is supplied by clicking the "48V" button in TotalMixFX, I should see a voltage drop of +/-48 V between the ground pin and one of the lines, correct?
  I tried all possible combinations of touching the probes between the three XLR leads. One pair gave a voltage of 0.20 V, another -0.20 V. I tested the voltmeter on a 1.5 V AAA battery to make sure everything is correct (it was, it read ~1.46 V for the battery). These very small measured voltages turn on and off with the TotalMix '48V' button, so it must be the phantom power.
  It's possible that I'm not getting good contact with the XLR leads, giving erroneous measurement. But it seems much more likely that this is exactly the problem, as it fits my symptoms: SM57 mic works fine, condenser doesn't work on same line.
  Since the Babyface gets its power supply through the USB connection to the PC, it would indicate something is wrong with the PC's USB power supply. The obvious solution here is to get an external power supply for the Babyface (wish it came with it now) and see if that fixes it. Or maybe try it on another computer first.
  Thoughts? Suggestions or advice? Does my analysis sound reasonable? Any help appreciated. Thanks,

-Caleb

6

Re: Babyface with se2200a condenser: no signal

With the double cable there is more than enough power so it seems the BF itself is broken.

Regards
Matthias Carstens
RME

Re: Babyface with se2200a condenser: no signal

So, I just installed all the drivers/Totalmix software etc. on another computer at work, and I get a 48V reading when I turn on the phantom power. So no, the Babyface isn't broken. It's absolutely my PC at home. This is kind of ridiculous considering that I bought it in September with pretty new hardware (750 W TX750 Corsair power supply, Gigabyte GA-P55A-UD3 mobo... one of these must be the problem). So thanks for all the advice, it seems it's not RME's problem. Looks like I'll be buying that Babyface power supply.

8

Re: Babyface with se2200a condenser: no signal

JoeClapp wrote:

So, I just installed all the drivers/Totalmix software etc. on another computer at work, and I get a 48V reading when I turn on the phantom power.

Nice that this worked, but it seems impossible that your computer is the cause when using the double cable. I would suggest to check the driver/firmware versions again to be the latest from our website. Apart from that any ps that has the specs mentioned on the bottom of the BF will do for testing.

You should use 'Total reset' (in the 0.93 RC from this forum) to make sure there is nothing strange set under the hood, for example Inst which would prevent 48V.

Regards
Matthias Carstens
RME

Re: Babyface with se2200a condenser: no signal

MC wrote:
JoeClapp wrote:

So, I just installed all the drivers/Totalmix software etc. on another computer at work, and I get a 48V reading when I turn on the phantom power.

Nice that this worked, but it seems impossible that your computer is the cause when using the double cable. I would suggest to check the driver/firmware versions again to be the latest from our website. Apart from that any ps that has the specs mentioned on the bottom of the BF will do for testing.

You should use 'Total reset' (in the 0.93 RC from this forum) to make sure there is nothing strange set under the hood, for example Inst which would prevent 48V.

Hi.  I'm unfortunately seeing the exact same problem that JoeClapp was talking about.  I just bought a condenser mic and when I tested it, i can't pick up any noise with it.  The only noise I can get out of the thing are the pops/clicks when i plug/unplug it and if i touch the metal body of the sennheiser MK4 mic with my fingers, i get audio feedback.  Besides that, nothing.    Now let me list every single test I did.  Please tell me if I'm missing something.

1 - i plugged the mic into the "LINE L" input without an extension cord to prove that the extension cord wasn't the problem.
2 - i made sure that the AN1 input was routed the headphone out, which was what i'm listening to.
3 - i made sure the AN1 input had the 48V phantom power button on.
4 - i tried plugging in both USB lines to see if having only one plugged in wasn't enough power, but that didn't help.
5 - i tried different USB plugs on the front and back of the computer, but that didn't help.
6 - i made sure the AN1 input gain was set to something high.  the same with it's volume slider, if that's what it is..
7 - i tried adjusting the left/right balance of the AN1 input to make sure that wasn't the problem.
8 - i brought the mic back to the store so they could test if it works and it did just fine.
9 - i tried testing out the voltage of the "LINE L" line and i was getting a reading of about 0.2 - 0.4 volts.  same as him.
10 - i updated the totalmix version to 0.95 and the flash update tool for the babyface and that didn't help.  (cycled power too)
11 - i tried using "Line R" instead of "Line L", (and made sure Line R was using the 48v button) but that didn't help.
12 - i tried using totalmix's "total reset" command, then turned on the AN1 48V button and routed the AN1 input to the headphone output in the mixer, and cranked up the AN1 input gain but it still didn't work.

Is there anything I'm missing?  Oh, and i'm using win7.

thanks in advance.  smile
-seneca

Re: Babyface with se2200a condenser: no signal

>>>>i tried adjusting the left/right balance of the AN1 input to make sure that wasn't the problem.<<<<<

I don't have a condenser mic but briefly thinking of perhaps buying one. I see the above line and wonder how you can adjust any left/right balance with a mono input. (Stereo light is not lit up is it?) And do the Led's light up on the Babyface as to having an input? (or TotalMixFX). Otherwise that is all I can think of. And I bought a new mic cord, and it does not work, it shorts and does not work, so I had to hook up my other mic cable to make my regular dynamic mic work, although I think you stated it was not the cord.

I use "free" setting and not the submix setting now on the right side of the babyface, because I click on the bottom of a channel and where it says "AN1" or so on the top, I usually have that (by clicking on the bottom of the channel) set to the channel it is, although I could route it to another output for the input. I like it better that way.

Re: Babyface with se2200a condenser: no signal

This may be completely unrelated, but I think I've experienced a bug, twice. A bug that just might be your problem.

Or maybe the bug is all about me, not the Babyface... :-)

Anyway, I just got my BabyFace a couple of days ago and at first, I could only get a very weak signal from my condenser mic, using input 1.

Turning up the input level of input 1 using the 'big knob' on the interface didn't seem to do much, nor did maxing the trim setting in TotalMix.

Also, the leds for channel 1 on the interface barely changed when I changed the input level. I found that odd, since the difference was both very audible and visually clear when I tried input 2 with my guitar, using the Hi-z/instrument setting.

By chance, I turned off the instrument setting of input 2 (in TotalMix) then turned it on and off again. Boom! Suddenly the trim of input 1 kicked in. Also, the leds on the hardware unit suddenly reflected the input level of input 1 and could be adjusted by both the 'big knob' and TotalMix.

At my next session, I hooked up a synth to input 2, using the XLR input, not the Hi-z. Very weak level. Adjusting the input level using the knob of the interface didn't change anything and this time I noticed that turning the knob wasn't reflected in the GUI of TotalMix either.

So, after checking and re-checking all cables, I remembered the incident from the previous session. Now, I didn't have total mix set to Instrument for input 2 this time, but I tried enabling/disabling the Instrument setting a couple of times and - Boom, there she was! Almost blasted my speakers.

This was with OS X Lion 10.7.2 and the latest BabyFace firmware, driver and TotalMix.

So, what I'm saying is maybe there's a bug with the current soft/firmware versions that can prevent both the hardware device and TotalMix from reacting to input level adjustments and maybe other settings (like 48 v on).

Maybe I'm just overlooking something obvious, which is probably in The Fine Manual... fryingpan
But seeing several posts about issues with condenser mics and then looking at my own experiences, well... Just saying.

Love the sound of this little thingy though, as well as its low latency even at high CPU. Not to mention the tight MIDI. Brilliant!

/Jonas

12

Re: Babyface with se2200a condenser: no signal

Hello,

it might be that the intial state of the unit is not set correctly in the Babyface (TM FX does that, depending on its current state).

Still the effects that you see could also be explained by overlooking the big wheel states. Pressing one time: set left channel, next press right, next both, next none (Level meter only). Are you aware of these modes?

Regards
Matthias Carstens
RME

13 (edited by slirak 2011-10-29 20:03:57)

Re: Babyface with se2200a condenser: no signal

MC wrote:

Hello,

it might be that the intial state of the unit is not set correctly in the Babyface (TM FX does that, depending on its current state).

Still the effects that you see could also be explained by overlooking the big wheel states. Pressing one time: set left channel, next press right, next both, next none (Level meter only). Are you aware of these modes?

Hi Matthias,

Yes, I'm aware of the states of the big wheel. Could you elaborate what you mean with the initial state? How would I set this correctly?

And let me add that it's great to own a piece of gear from a company that takes an active part in the user forums! This was actually part of my purchasing decision.

Regards
/Jonas

14

Re: Babyface with se2200a condenser: no signal

The 'initial state' is set automatically, you have no influence on that. Like I said, your description sounds like that procedure fails somehow. Then when you cange the state of the Inst button the correct state is loaded finally. Please try to verify this. Does it happen all the time or only from time to time?

Regards
Matthias Carstens
RME

Re: Babyface with se2200a condenser: no signal

MC wrote:

The 'initial state' is set automatically, you have no influence on that. Like I said, your description sounds like that procedure fails somehow. Then when you cange the state of the Inst button the correct state is loaded finally. Please try to verify this. Does it happen all the time or only from time to time?

Ok. I haven't used the interface much yet, so I can't say if what I describe is intermittent or repeatable under certain circumstances.
I'll try to repeat the issue and see if I can nail it down. I happen to make my living as a software developer, so I do have some notion of what you'll need to isolate and identify a possible bug.

Regards
/Jonas

Re: Babyface with se2200a condenser: no signal

MC wrote:

The 'initial state' is set automatically, you have no influence on that. Like I said, your description sounds like that procedure fails somehow. Then when you cange the state of the Inst button the correct state is loaded finally. Please try to verify this. Does it happen all the time or only from time to time?

Just another thing. I use my Mac (mid 2011 MBA OS X Lion) for other things than audio, so I unplug my audio interface a lot. Should I quit TotalMix before I plug in my BabyFace?

Regards
/Jonas

Re: Babyface with se2200a condenser: no signal

Did the OP sort this problem out? I ask because I was doing a mobile vocal recording on my laptop using a Babyface on Friday and the singer had a se2200a  and coincidently I couldn't get the phantom power to work for his microphone either. I ended up using an SM58.

Regards
Kraznet

HDSP Raydat,  Fireface 400, Babyface Pro, Sequoia 16, Samplitude Pro X6, Windows 10

Re: Babyface with se2200a condenser: no signal

This may be a bit late but ...

I can't see it, but has anyone checked if the OP was using the 1.3m breakout extension cable?  Early cables had an open shield connection that blocked phantom power to the mics (dynamic mics would work but maybe a bit of hum pickup)?  If so, the breakout on its own should work, which would prove the cause of the problem.

De gustibus - et sonus - non est disputandum

Re: Babyface with se2200a condenser: no signal

I was using the 1.3m breakout cable. Maybe that was the problem? I bought my Babyface in Aug 2011. Is that when early cables were around?

HDSP Raydat,  Fireface 400, Babyface Pro, Sequoia 16, Samplitude Pro X6, Windows 10

20

Re: Babyface with se2200a condenser: no signal

Early cables and early Babyfaces...

Regards
Matthias Carstens
RME

Re: Babyface with se2200a condenser: no signal

... and stock that could spend a LONG time in distributors' warehouses.

De gustibus - et sonus - non est disputandum