Topic: Matthias Carsten ADVICE PLEASE - Cubase Negative Latency with FF800

Hi folks,

As you may know there have been issues with Cubase not handling negative latency values returned by the FF800 when pinging external effects. This has been discussed by Matt Houghton in Sound on Sound magazine and in the SOS Forums.

http://www.soundonsound.com/forum/showf … er=1018539

Being sick of waiting for a solution I have decided to look for another sound card that may work correctly with Cubase.

I was wondering if I used an RME Raydat, would the problem still persist. Advice from RME needed here please.

I also heard that a Lynx AES works well. I currently use a Lynx Aurora 16 with my FF800. Can anyone confirm this or suggest other interfaces that do work correctly when using external effects with Cubase.

Best Regards,
Brian.

2

Re: Matthias Carsten ADVICE PLEASE - Cubase Negative Latency with FF800

> when pinging external effects

When pinging external effects on SPDIF or ADAT I/O!

Of course any purely digital I/O card will work. And any combined analog/digital card will fail, either by giving wrong values for the digital I/O, the analog I/O, or maybe even both to make sure your pinging in Cubase works (and still gives invalid results). Remember: The problem is that ASIO defines only one latency value for all I/Os of a device.

Regards
Matthias Carstens
RME

3 (edited by vinark 2012-11-24 09:57:28)

Re: Matthias Carsten ADVICE PLEASE - Cubase Negative Latency with FF800

Solution is easy! If the driver has an option to report the fastest latency (the digtal i/o) the pinging will work on mixed cards. The pinging is done on a per i/o basis not the whole card. Cubase just can´t handle if the i/o latency of a digital pair is faster then the driver reported analogue i/o latency. A simple tick box that would give the option to report the digital i/o latency to the driver would fix this.

Not that I need it on my 9652...

Cheers
Vincent

Edit;
When I say easy, I mean the concept is easy, not that it would be easy to program or that RME is at fault not adding this. I have no idea how easy it would be that ad this and if it would cause other issues.

Vincent, Amsterdam
https://soundcloud.com/thesecretworld
BFpro fs, 2X HDSP9652 ADI-8AE, 2X HDSP9632

4

Re: Matthias Carsten ADVICE PLEASE - Cubase Negative Latency with FF800

I still don't get what that would be good for. Just to pass the ping test? And then you would have to set the original (analog) I/O value again (which makes your measured ping value useless), or all your newly recorded tracks will have an offset. Apart from that the ASIO driver needs to be reset/reloaded for the new value to be readable from Cubase.

We use the only one right info, and that is the analog I/O latency. Otherwise we would have hundreds of people complaining here, instead of the 2 or 3 right now.

Regards
Matthias Carstens
RME

5 (edited by vinark 2012-11-24 15:15:13)

Re: Matthias Carsten ADVICE PLEASE - Cubase Negative Latency with FF800

Ping is for external fx. Like you you connect an AD/DA adat device to your AIO and a couple of compressors to that AD/DA. Cubase can ping external FX on an individual basis and after that they are sample accurate to the daw. Only thing is since it can´t handle negative delay (design flaw by steinberg) it doesn´t work on 9632 and AIO.

It is true, now the Analogue outputs are not in sync, but that is not the issue. The adats are now in sync to the daw internally and you can for example do wet/dry on your external compressors without phase issues. You then output the daw to the analogue outs.
Hope this makes it a little clearer, if not please ask.

And you are right the analogue latency is the best general choice, but it would be a nice option for some.

Vincent, Amsterdam
https://soundcloud.com/thesecretworld
BFpro fs, 2X HDSP9652 ADI-8AE, 2X HDSP9632

Re: Matthias Carsten ADVICE PLEASE - Cubase Negative Latency with FF800

Hi Matthias.

RE:Of course any purely digital I/O card will work

If I use my FF800 as an ADDA and the Aurorao as an ADDA and hook both of these up to the Raydat will everything work fine if I ping from Cubase. The question I am asking is, will there be a negative delay if using the Raydat.

This would be a fine solution allowing me to hook up 24 external Inserts without worrying about sync issues.

Please let me know you suggestions.

Best Regards,
Brian Gardiner.

Re: Matthias Carsten ADVICE PLEASE - Cubase Negative Latency with FF800

bcgardiner wrote:

Hi Matthias.

RE:Of course any purely digital I/O card will work

If I use my FF800 as an ADDA and the Aurorao as an ADDA and hook both of these up to the Raydat will everything work fine if I ping from Cubase. The question I am asking is, will there be a negative delay if using the Raydat.

This would be a fine solution allowing me to hook up 24 external Inserts without worrying about sync issues.

Please let me know you suggestions.

Best Regards,
Brian Gardiner.

No negative latency if using the raydat and pinging will work fine!
But remember that not all AD/DA are created equal. so the FF latency will not be the same as the Aurora. Which if you record from all 16 inputs at the same time, does need some care to use the same hardware for phase related sources. Same if you would mix from those 16 outputs in analogue summing.

Vincent, Amsterdam
https://soundcloud.com/thesecretworld
BFpro fs, 2X HDSP9652 ADI-8AE, 2X HDSP9632

Re: Matthias Carsten ADVICE PLEASE - Cubase Negative Latency with FF800

Hi Vincent,
Thanks for the reply. I understand that the ADDA on the FF800 will be different than that on the Aurora. However, I am using them purely as outboard inserts surely, once Cubase has pinged the the FF800 and the Aurora round-trips, it will be able to apply the correct compensation so long as I don't go changing the IO configuration of the External Effects between sessions.

My aim is to have lots of external effect inserts setup as a template for mixing. Please advise if you think this setup will not work.

Best Regards,
Brian.

Re: Matthias Carsten ADVICE PLEASE - Cubase Negative Latency with FF800

I think this will work. Cubase will ping the roundtrip per extFX, which if great if you also include some digital external FX as these will have even more latency because of their converters.

Vincent, Amsterdam
https://soundcloud.com/thesecretworld
BFpro fs, 2X HDSP9652 ADI-8AE, 2X HDSP9632

10

Re: Matthias Carsten ADVICE PLEASE - Cubase Negative Latency with FF800

bcgardiner wrote:

If I use my FF800 as an ADDA and the Aurorao as an ADDA and hook both of these up to the Raydat will everything work fine if I ping from Cubase. The question I am asking is, will there be a negative delay if using the Raydat

No, that must work.

Regards
Matthias Carstens
RME