Here are some thoughts.

(To RME, please do not take these as criticism, as I think anyone would agree that what you have provided us with in both hardware and software is FAR superior to anything any other company is providing. It is truly exciting that we can work on the cutting edge of technology. These are just my notes related to my very specific application -- take them for what they're worth.)

It is clear that the OSC implementation was designed with TouchOSC in mind. While this is nice for making quick TouchOSC templates, it makes it tough to develop more custom apps such as this. One of the biggest issues I'm having in keeping track of the overall "state" of things is the "8 channel" mindset. While I understand the purpose (and legacy) of this, it makes it tough build an "overall picture" of the console. I'm not proposing that all track information be sent all the time of course (as this would simply overwhelm the OSC ports), but I think some improvements could be made in some key areas. For example, it's not very easy (if not impossible) to determine the number of visible tracks on any particular row (my app currently requires you to manually specify the number of channels for each row). Additionally, while the recent addition of /setBankStart is very nice, the fact that you can't determine if a track is mono or stereo (from page 1) makes it hard to use when operating from "page 1" (since a stereo track takes up 2 numbers in the /setBankStart sense). Also, the way the channel selection on page 2 works is tough to get a handle on. It seems at first blush that the channel start number on page 1 and page 2 are completely independent, but under certain situations it is possible to change the channel that is selected on page 2 by what you do on page 1. I have yet to figure out a way to maintain my bearings when this happens.

I think a lot of the problems could be alleviated with some sort of "initialization request" message that could be sent to TMFX that would provide an overview of the current setup. Things such as number of tracks, track names, stereo configurations, etc. This would allow one to build a complete picture of the initial state of things.

To take things a step further, it would be AMAZING if an "absolute addressing" scheme could be incorporated (perhaps in addition to the current relative addressing scheme, which is great for things like TouchOSC). It would be wonderful if you could command any channel at any time, similar to what is done currently with MIDI.

For example, the message "/0/0/0/volume 0.5" might set the volume of the 0th row (inputs) and 0th track (first track) of the 0th submix to 0.5. You could then have things like "/0/0/0/eqFreq1", "/0/0/0/compRatio", etc. One of the beauties of OSC is that an unlimited number of messages are possible. Outgoing OSC messages (from TMFX to OSC controller) could be sent any time anything changes, which would allow the OSC controller's state to be maintained even when it's not "viewing" the object that changed. Track level messages would of course need to be limited somehow, but certainly doable within the OSC framework.

Of course, I'm just thinking aloud here -- this is all easier said than done, and there are of course details I've glossed over. Again, I'm by no means looking a gift horse in the mouth -- just wanted to put my ideas out there.

For now I will keep plugging away with what is available and see what I can come up with!

I've also been using UFX at live situations. Please count me in if you need tester

In thinking more about things, perhaps there's an "easy quick fix" (short of an absolute addressing scheme) for helping maintain bearings of the overall picture.

If another 8 messages such as "/1/bankStart1 X" ... "/1/bankStart8 X" were added, which provided the "absolute" reference of each of the 8 track numbers. That way, for any one of the currently visible 8 tracks, you would always know what value to send to "/setBankStart" to get to that channel on page 2. To make this completely usable, these would ideally be the first 8 messages received (prior to the "/1/labelS1" ... "/1/labelS8" messages), so that the app could index each channel according to this number (for maintaining channel FX settings internal to the app).

Seems like this may be an easy (or at least easier?) thing to do than a full absolute addressing mechanism?

Pianogineer -- I'm excited to hear about your app and I'd be happy to be a beta tester. 

I am so grateful to Matthias and the whole team at RME for building such amazing hardware and software, and I yearn to push the limits and see how we can refine these tools to help us in new ways. 

I have mixed using iPad/OSC/TotalMix/UFX for a few concerts and found that it is rock solid, but not quite intended as a live mixing solution.  I have a few feature suggestions, which I'll get to in a moment.  This summer I took my equipment on tour with an established US band and recorded a live album for them while mixing FOH and monitors for audiences as large as 5000 people, all through the UFX.  My setup included:

--30 inputs (using an additional rack of outboard tube and solid state preamps from my studio, plus two RME ADI 8-DS)
--5 monitor mixes, plus main mix, plus stereo headphone mix for myself (9 outputs)
--wireless in-ear monitor transmitter to my beltpack and headphones, so I can solo channels anywhere in the room while mixing
--iPad 3 running TouchOSC (and also iPhone at times)
--AirPort Express base station as my primary access point -- MacBook Pro, iPad and iPhone all connect through that (I found this more reliable than establishing an "ad hoc network" based on the MacBook's wifi. The ad hoc network would shut down if I didn't use my iPad constantly to keep it connected.)
--On the MacBook I ran ProTools 10 as my primary recording.  I also used ProTools for effects processing (running Aux inputs with RTAS plugins) which I could add to my live mix using the Software Playback returns in TotalMix. 
--I of course ran DuRec the entire time as a redundant backup recording, and that saved me on one occasion when ProTools hiccoughed and recording had to be re-started in the middle of a song. 
--The finished album is here, and I'm very happy with the results.  I can't imagine doing this job without the UFX, and the band is looking forward to producing another live album this way very soon:  https://itunes.apple.com/us/album/live- … d573782164

The features that I really missed when mixing live:

--The ability to view and adjust all of the outputs of a single input, from one screen.  When running sound check, I've got five guys on the stage, each with his own monitor mix.  We go around the stage real quickly and check each instrument, and each guy raises his hand if he needs more of that instrument in his monitor wedge.  So when I'm looking at the input channel for the lead guitar, I want to see all of the monitor sends for that channel, and be able to see and adjust the levels of everywhere that microphone input is going out. It was embarrassingly slow to do this with TouchOSC. Even with TotalMix, I have to click on each output fader in order to set each input's send to it (or use the matrix view, which is a strange way to mix). Perhaps we could come up with some iPad-based matrix view, via OSC.  Or just a page of output knobs/faders for each input would be ideal. 

--(Perhaps this one is a question for Matthias) Is it possible for multiple OSC clients to connect to TotalMix someday?  I attempted to control it simultaneously with my iPhone and iPad, and while I could have some commands from each working, it appears that it's just designed for 1:1 connection at this point.  It would be wonderful if each band member could control their monitor mix with their iPhone or iPad.  Every musician has an iPhone in this country, and every musician wants more control over their stage monitors.  I would want to see some sort of restricted interface mode, so that the musician on stage doesn't accidentally affect the main mix or other settings. 

--The EQ interaction that you demonstrate in your video is excellent!  This is high on my wish list of features.  In addition to being able to grab the EQ points directly and move them around, I would suggest using a pinch for adjusting Q. 

--I see space for a graphical dynamics interface, and that would be very helpful.  Especially if we are able to see the peak/RMS level and the compressor's interaction with that audio (just like in TotalMix, where the white point moves along the knee line of the gate and compressor) It would be great to see gain-reduction meters alongside the main audio meters for each channel as well. 

--Here's a tricky one:  I learned that if I wanted the ability to solo various inputs, I needed to make the "Main" output be my personal "control room" mix, and actually assign a different pair of outputs to the main front-of-house mix.  The control room functionality of total mix is quite robust, but it doesn't include this simple feature that live consoles have.  Perhaps in the interface design of your app, you can account for this, and label things appropriately so that what TotalMix calls "Main" is actually our cue mix which receives the output of whatever is soloed. 

Cheers, and thanks for your work!

Charlie Wilson
http://soniczenrecords.com

PS
A great example of iOS live mixing control is the Presonus app for iPad and iPhone.  Have you checked that out?  You can demo the app for free, even if you don't own one of their StudioLive consoles.

Thx! :-)

I'll post a link to the new template when I get home tonight, but I must credit Matthias and RME, who supply us with all this power. The current Ipad template is just my own preferred way of working with TouchOSC. Submix selection was introduced by MC.

Hey, Mats! I found a video you made on YouTube that got me interested in trying the Touch OSC App with my RME Fireface UFX, but I have been trying to get it to work with no success. The one common theme I see from a lot of people is using an Apple computer, not Windows. I am wondering, is OSC control really only support with the Touch OSC app speaking to a Mac computer? My studio computer run Windows 7 Pro and I finally got my iPhone to see my computer to upload one of your previous templates using the Touch OSC Editor. So, it would seem that communication is kinda there. But, enabling OSC in Options in the TotalMix FX window, I don't get communication between my iPhone and computer. Maybe I am beating my head trying to get something working that isn't supported. Anyone from RME have any help with this? Maybe I should do a video showing how I'm trying to configure things. That may reveal what I'm missing.

No, my iPhone and computer are definitely on the same network. I can ping my iPhone fine from my computer. I also tried connecting through the Touch OSC Bridge program and made my own Template with just a couple buttons and a fader and tried doing remote control, not with the OSC part, but with "Enable MIDI Control" on TotalMix and my iPhone will control things that way. I was thinking maybe I could just carry on with my own template, since I really only care to control volume on my Phones and Main mix, but you guys have done such a nice job with your templates I sure would like to use them. Like I said, maybe if I made a video I could show how I thought one is to set it up and - maybe I'm missing something!

Thanks MC Didn't want to be the one to say it.

Updates coming soon! Haven't had much chance to work on it this week -- have a Christmas gig I've been rehearsing for.

I think I've figured out a better way to track state for now -- effectively using "trackname" as my compass. It does preclude channels with the same name -- but I figure no one would want to do that anyway so I'm thinking it will work out nicely.

This is very cool. One question though. Is anybody else having problems un-muting tracks? I hit the M on the iPad and it engages the mute button in totalmix, but I can't un-mute without the mouse.

Anyway, this is great and I am very thankful for your work and willingness to share!

This looks pretty awesome. If you need another tester...

Oh dear -- I see this thread has been stickified! Yikes! Well that's good and bad -- good that it seems there is a great interest in it, bad in that I haven't been making the progress I would have liked. Unfortunately, as I'm sure many of you know, life find a way of getting in the way and changing our priorities Not to say I necessarily haven't had the time lately, just lost a bit of motivation.

I wanted to mention that the project is located on github (github.com/joshslater/totalmix-live). If anyone is interested in joining the development, it would certainly speed things up and/or give me additional motivation to keep working on it!

My band did a gig last weekend and it was the first time in earnest that I used TouchOSC on my iPad to control the mix. While it certainly worked as well as imagined, the exact issues that I think many of us have experienced certainly got in the way a bit (lack of good overview of mix state, inability to quickly change sub-mixes, etc.).

I've gotten lots of responses and PM's about beta testing -- unfortunately I'm still a bit away from that, but rest assured this will be the first place that will be updated when something is ready!

Thanks for the sustained interest!

Does RME plan to allow midi control over 16 channels in TotalMix FX?
Midi control is currently limited to only 8 channels of a physical device.

For e.g. it would be great to use 1 Mackie Control + 1 Extender  or 2 BCF2000s to mix a show (or 2 iPads with V-Control).
It would be even better if RME made an iOS app that offers tight integration with TotalMix to control gain, EQs, Dynamics etc.

This sounds very interesting.  Looking forward to trying it.

Awesome news! Looking forward to it.

This is definitely the news of the week, with the TotalMix FX for iPad!

Like Burtan above, I'm wondering if this means we will be able to connect 4 OSC controllers too.
This could be a workaround of the non-direct access to all parameters without the "Mackie Control" model.

Hey MC,
where can I found official template for totalmix ?

Thanks

philippe

so will the four midi controllers also work with totalmixFX on a MADIFX card?

Hi Matthias,

When you say you can use up to 4 controllers, does this mean each an be assigned to control a specific submix?  If so this would be fantastic for using TM as the hub of a personal monitoring system.

Cheers,

David

:-D

Fantastic!  RME is going to have a huge hit with this.

Do you mean that you can change the output faders using Lemur and not the input faders?

http://www.rme-audio.de/forum/viewtopic … 340#p90340