• Registered: 2010-01-15
  • Posts: 8

Topic: Using Fireface 800 as ADAT with Apogee Symphony

I have had my FF800 for many years and with a studio upgrade with my team, we have an Apogee Symphony IO as well.
For one of the projects, I would like to make Apogee the Master and FF for 8 additional inputs.
The Symphony IO is 8in/8out and ADAT/Optical/Spdif. I use Cubase for most of my work.

I want to use the 8 rear analog inputs on FF800 for my synths, then send them via ADAT to Apogee, which I believe acts as the 'Master'.

I have tried this and it's just not working. Both units work fine individually, but I'd like to know what settings I have to make on the Fireface and so on.

Thanks in advance

  • Registered: 2010-01-15
  • Posts: 8

Re: Using Fireface 800 as ADAT with Apogee Symphony

anyone?

  • From: Germany
  • Registered: 2007-04-10
  • Posts: 9,551

Re: Using Fireface 800 as ADAT with Apogee Symphony

A thread bump after half an hour is a record for this forum, I believe. Please have a little more patience with us and other forum users. There is no guarantee for instant replies and solutions, sorry.

Also, please be more specific about what exactly is "just not working" as expected here.


Regards
Daniel Fuchs
RME

Regards
Daniel Fuchs
RME

RME Support's Website

  • Registered: 2010-01-15
  • Posts: 8

Re: Using Fireface 800 as ADAT with Apogee Symphony

Thanks Daniel for the comment. Honestly, stuff like this is what steered me away from RME. I have been a super loyal customer (Multiface I, Multiface II, Fireface 800) and instead of acknowledging, it's almost like having a dig at me for a bump. Bump was because I assumed there was potential help. Clearly not. I am sorry I didn't realize there are not as many users on this as there were a few years ago. Surely 'ignoring' my bump could have not gotten it under my skin. I am saying this respectfully and truthfully.

When I said 'not working' that's all it is. I have done the ADAT connection, WC connection, Set FF800 to be Slave, 44.1 etc. consistent.
There is just no signal. I cannot work out why.

  • From: Germany
  • Registered: 2007-04-10
  • Posts: 9,551

Re: Using Fireface 800 as ADAT with Apogee Symphony

Never mind RME or even the number of users here (which does grow), no user forum will appreciate a bump after 30 minutes, when the topic will not even have drifted down significantly... Please consider this a matter of treating your desired source of information with some respect, i.e. the other forum members. Comes across as very impatient, demanding, and might be considered rude. If you found my semi-witty remark to be inappropriate, then take it as an indicator of how easily such things are misunderstood, including quite possibly your innocent bump...

Also please consider that if no one jumped in right away, and not since then, it might be that others considered the question as unclear and unspecific as I found it to be. How have you set ADAT and WC connections, one way, both ways? If one way from RME to Apogee, the FF will be in master mode, but this choice does not even affect signal routing, it has to do with clock sync only. The FF does not automatically know what you expect it to do with the incoming signal, you will have to route analog to ADAT manually. Since you did not mention doing so, I can only assume you haven't. This is where your post lacks the required basic information others need to help you without having to guess... This is also basic functionality explained in the manual, so what could be seen as a discrepancy between your statement to have had the FF for years and the somewhat vague description of the issue may add to other forum members' confusion.

This should help with the routing: http://vimeo.com/1665619


Regards
Daniel Fuchs
RME

Regards
Daniel Fuchs
RME

RME Support's Website

6 Reply by cj1973 (edited by cj1973 2013-06-07 07:30:32)

  • Registered: 2010-01-15
  • Posts: 8

Re: Using Fireface 800 as ADAT with Apogee Symphony

Not here to argue against the forum manager. I don't think there is a chance, but I would like to know where in the RME manual it gives any indication as to if RME is to be a Slave to another Interface in this instance, besides being switched on and all the right cables installed along with the appropriate settings, would the RME actually still have to be plugged in by the use of the Firewire cable to the computer? I would think to remove the firewire cable as that serves no purpose during this process as the other interface (Master) wired to the computer. Could you please point this out to me, what page and so on?
ps. Not dissing RME in anyway as I did land multiple US Billboard Top 100s with RME and Cubase. My time is limited so I gathered with some luck, I would have had an answer by now. Instead, I am trying to justify a 'did you read the manual' type argument with a forum moderator. Crazy isn't it?
ps. I did meet the RME guy at NAMM this year and had a very long conversation with them, I am looking forward to having a good chat with them this next year too. Hopefully I will meet you then.
pps. in any event, thank you for your notes and link. it's appreciated.

  • From: Germany
  • Registered: 2007-04-10
  • Posts: 9,551

Re: Using Fireface 800 as ADAT with Apogee Symphony

Master/slave configuration is an entirely independent issue from signal routing, it only determines clock sync. Please be specific about "all the right cables installed along with the appropriate settings" - what exactly have you connected where? For the FF to be clock slave, connections would need to run both ways, or at least WC be connected from Apogee to FF, but being slave does not automatically set any audio routing, as seems to be your assumption.

You can do both in principle - leave the FF connected to FW for quick access to the mixer, if you find that useful, or set it up for standalone operation as per manual, in which case you will need to initially set the desired signal routing with the unit connected to FW and then save these settings in the mixer's options menu and the settings dialog. Otherwise, the FF has no way of knowing that you expect it to route analog in to ADAT.

Regards
Daniel Fuchs
RME

Regards
Daniel Fuchs
RME

RME Support's Website

8 Reply by cj1973 (edited by cj1973 2013-06-07 08:40:44)

  • Registered: 2010-01-15
  • Posts: 8

Re: Using Fireface 800 as ADAT with Apogee Symphony

Ok. Let me break this down.

Gear: Mac Pro 10.6.8 running Cubase and Logic
Other: RME Fireface 800 and Apogee Symphony io
Main Connection: Apogee via USB to Mac, FF via FW to Mac

Goal:
1. 8 synth signals (via external preamps) sent to FF800 Analog inputs - hooked up.
2. From FF800, from ADAT OUT 1, using optical cable, to send those 8 signals to ADAT IN on Apogee.

I have connected the FF ADAT 1 Out to ADAT IN on Apogee
I also connected a WC signal out from Apogee to WC in on FF800 (unsure if this is needed)

Since the Firewire 'Settings' box nor the FF Mixer does not come on if the FW cable is not connected to the Mac, I have no choice but to leave it connected to the Mac. In Cubase, I choose Apogee as the Audio Interface though. Then I also create input tracks on Cubase for ADAT 1-8 on Apogee.

What else do I have to 'set up'  here, especially on the settings area to get the signal into the DAW?

9 Reply by MC

  • MC
  • MC
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  • From: Germany/Thailand
  • Registered: 2007-04-06
  • Posts: 24,844

Re: Using Fireface 800 as ADAT with Apogee Symphony

You have to route the analog inputs to the ADAT output with TotalMix, then save this state via Options / Flash current mixer state. Then set the clock source in the Settings dialog to Word, make sure it shows Sync, then hit the Store button. Now you can remove the FireWire cable, switch off the FF, switch it back on and it will work as 8-channel AD converter.

Regards
Matthias Carstens
RME

MC's Website

  • From: Germany
  • Registered: 2007-04-10
  • Posts: 9,551

Re: Using Fireface 800 as ADAT with Apogee Symphony

Yes, the WC is required here. Once the setup works with the FW connection, you can save it for standalone operation. To get the signal where you want it, i.e. at the ADAT outputs, route signals from the analog inputs of your choice to the ADAT outputs in the FF mixer. The tutorial video I posted a link to will explain this. Once this works, and you see the input signal at the physical ADAT outputs in the FF mixer, the rest is a matter of the configuration of the Apogee and your audio software.

Regards
Daniel Fuchs
RME

Regards
Daniel Fuchs
RME

RME Support's Website

  • Registered: 2007-05-09
  • Posts: 174

Re: Using Fireface 800 as ADAT with Apogee Symphony

And THAT is why this is a good forum!  We've got from partially stated question to informed advice, slightly delayed by poor etiquette (a bump after Half-An-Hour FFS?!) in just one day.  Anywhere else on the interwebs this would now be heading for a longest-thread-ever award over the etiquette.

12 Reply by cj1973 (edited by cj1973 2013-06-07 21:26:15)

  • Registered: 2010-01-15
  • Posts: 8

Re: Using Fireface 800 as ADAT with Apogee Symphony

Firstly, thank you Mathias. I appreciate the blunt technical response.
Daniel - Thanks again for the additional information.

Laurence - what are you paid by the minute or by the hour? Clearly you swallow your own words because you had absolutely no technical contribution whatsoever. Perhaps you should join me at Etiquette 101 class too. Plus, it seems as if it's a crime to do a quick bump. There is a positive to that in that if there is a specialist at the time, it's a quick request for help. No forum members are expected to assist and I understand that. My issue was super time-sensitive and hence I did what I felt was a common sense approach, which you are most welcome to correct me if there has been a law or book written on Forum etiquette stating that. In addition, I did it after 30 minutes. So do most bumps. How long after 30 minutes can be arguable yes? In any event, since you appear to be bored, why don't you dig up the information on the RME manual or any forum where it states you must or must not leave FW from a FF800 connected to Mac when using another USB interface. Tradition has it never turn on two interfaces at any one time. Since ADAT is there for a reason, I would have thought there would be more specifics on actually using it with another interface. Excuse me for digging outside the square.

Thanks again others. It's appreciated.

  • From: Germany
  • Registered: 2007-04-10
  • Posts: 9,551

Re: Using Fireface 800 as ADAT with Apogee Symphony

cj1973 wrote:

In any event, since you appear to be bored, why don't you dig up the information on the RME manual or any forum where it states you must or must not leave FW from a FF800 connected to Mac when using another USB interface.

Really doesn't matter - should work either way.

Tradition has it never turn on two interfaces at any one time.

Not sure where this comes from, but this really isn't usually a problem.

Since ADAT is there for a reason, I would have thought there would be more specifics on actually using it with another interface.

I believe it is all in the manual - ADAT ins connect to other devices' ADAT outs and vice versa - regardless of whether the other device is an audio interface, a preamp, a digital mixer, or whatever else. There really aren't any specifics concerning the use with other audio interfaces.


Regards
Daniel Fuchs
RME

Regards
Daniel Fuchs
RME

RME Support's Website