• Registered: 2013-07-18
  • Posts: 2

Topic: RME Hammerfall DIGI 9652 best settings?

Hi everybody.
I am writing to ask what the best settings for the RME Hammerfall DIGI 9636/52 might be.

I am on Win XP.

I recently had the (most-likely-not-very-smart) idea of upgrading an old Creamware A16Ultra AD/DA converter with something newer than the RME card I am still using. A less old Apogee Rosetta 200 AD/DA converter.

http://www.apogeedigital.com/products/r … series.php

Since I am not (cannot possibly be) interested in using the 192 kHz option of the converter the RME card should be more than perfect in theory.

Following the advice of the Apogee support I tried to use the RME via word clock as slave... and there the problems began.

The audio editor(s) are simply not playing anything or, if the locators move, it keeps playing faster (sort of jumping/reading faster and rushing randomly really) but not outputting any sound anyway.

Am I doing something wrong or is there a compatibility issue here?
Is the card too old to recognise properly the Apogee word clock perhaps?
Are you aware of any issue on the subject?

The RME card does not seem to work at 96 kHz via word clock.

That's why I am asking what the best alternative setup might be in case... assuming that my current set up should work in theory.

Anyway, just wanting to be able to use it properly what's the best settings might be for the card at this point? Assuming that the settings I am using are someway wrong...

I was told I might also use the old converter in conjunction with the new one and I take I should set the card as master (or AutoSync?) not being able to use it via world clock at that point.

Any advice on the best settings for that then?

But let's see if the newer converter might be able to work with the current settings first.

Here's some links to a sceenshoot of the various settings:

These were the working settings with the A16ULTRA.

http://imageshack.us/a/img541/8894/bwmz.jpg

These are the non-working settings when trying to use the 96 kHz option.

http://imageshack.us/a/img19/5796/09yd.jpg

These are the working settings when using the 44.1 kHz option.

http://imageshack.us/a/img801/7904/0a3b.jpg

I was also advised to think on getting a RME AIO... but it seems a waste to get rid of a perfectly working soundcard like the DIGI9652, plus the connections on the PC might differ a bit.

In the past I never used the word clock... I was adviced to use it even if the difference is not perceptible on my side... but better following the advice of more experienced people. I do not dare to try out things without using word clock at this point.

In this case something is not working as intended.

In the audio editor preferences for Playback/Record device I use ASIO DIGI9636/52

There seems to be other possibilities though. For example ASIO DIGI96 Serie or a pletora of MME-WDM DIGI9652 OUT SPDIF (1) or MME-WDM DIGI9652 OUT ADAT1 (1+2)(1) and so on for all the available outputs.

Something that I am noticing is that on the SyncCheck settings panel if I am working at 44.1 kHz or 88.2 kHz everything plays fine and the ADAT1 In says: Sync.
When I switch the converter to 96 kHz or 48 kHz it changes into LOCK and stops playing.
Switching back to 44100 everything plays fine after a couple of tries.

As advised by the Apogee support the setting on the converter are as follows:

SAMPLE RATE 96 or what I decide depending on the frequency.
WC SYNC I / O no light as the Rosetta is set to Word Clock out, meaning that it sends the Word Clock signal to the RME .
LOCK WIDE must be green because a link to the WORD CLOCK signal was detected
NARROW must remain red.
SOURCE DIGITAL OUTPUT ANALOG  on

In case you might want to have a look at the new converter manual here's a link to it:

http://www.apogeedigital.com/products/r … series.php

Since I was told the problem seems to be on the RME side I resolved to write here.


Please let me know if possible.


Kind Regards, Rosario

  • From: Germany
  • Registered: 2007-04-10
  • Posts: 9,770

Re: RME Hammerfall DIGI 9652 best settings?

For one, you do not need Word Clock. In a setup like this, it is simply not required. Every other advice is not correct and might have a tendency towards the esoteric.

Secondly, and more importantly, you can not run your 44k projects while trying to clock your card to incoming 96k Word Clock. This does not make sense and just won't work. If running 44k projects, you also have to clock the card to 44k, nothing else. And as you can see, this works....

There is no issue of compatibility and no "problem", it is simply an incorrect setup (44 vs 96).

Regards
Daniel Fuchs
RME

Regards
Daniel Fuchs
RME

RME Support's Website

3 Reply by rosario_erre (edited by rosario_erre 2013-07-19 21:15:33)

  • Registered: 2013-07-18
  • Posts: 2

Re: RME Hammerfall DIGI 9652 best settings?

RME Support wrote:

For one, you do not need Word Clock. In a setup like this, it is simply not required. Every other advice is not correct and might have a tendency towards the esoteric.

Different advice on the same subject... I will get rid of the useless word clock cables until one day someone will figure out why it is working on 44.1/88.2 kHz but not working at 48/96 kHz...

My concern is not much on the esoteric side of the issue... just the above statement. Not syncing when used at 48/96 kHz. The panel just says Lock as in the the non-working settings when trying to use the 96 kHz option. (as in the picture)

RME Support wrote:

Secondly, and more importantly, you can not run your 44k projects while trying to clock your card to incoming 96k Word Clock. This does not make sense and just won't work. If running 44k projects, you also have to clock the card to 44k, nothing else. And as you can see, this works....

I cannot possibly run a 44.1 kHz project while trying to clock any card to incoming 96 kHz (unless resampling in real time the incoming signal---or having the whole audio content played at a different speed if succeeding). But I am not trying to use the card like that.

In a recording session I just would like to record an incoming signal at 96 kHz but I cannot do that for reasons beyond my knowledge. At least I can do that at 44.1 or 88.2 kHz but not at 48 or 96 kHz because the card is not playing any sound and keeps going into Lock ('a valid signal') instead of Sync ('a valid and synchronous signal') even if both converter and project are set up at 48 or 96 kHz.
What I am noticing is that when it says Lock, it does not play.

The problem should also arise when downsampling to 44.1 kHz after the mastering tweaks. Being the RME in slave mode via word clock I should be able to switch sample rates from the converter. I think.

In practic the card will not output any sound when the converter is set at 48 or 96 kHz... via word clock.
If I set it to AutoSync it will work as intended.

If used via word clock it recognizes the sample rate changes but no matter what it will not play anything with 48 or 96 kHz.

Am I doing something wrong here?

If I am following what you are saying then the card should work also at 48/96 kHz sample rates, but it is not.

On page 13 of the 9652 manual it is stated:

Clock Mode

The card can be configured to use the following clock sources: external input signal (AutoSync), internal clock (Master), or external word clock signal (Wordclock).

On page 16 there is a chapter about Word Clock.

AES/EBU, SPDIF and ADAT are self-clocking, so an additional line for word clock could be considered redundant.

Perhaps you were referring to that when writing that in a setup like this, it is simply not required.
Which might lead to the statement on page 14:

9.2 Clock Modes - Synchronization
In the digital world, all devices are either the ‘Master’ (clock source) or a ‘Slave’ synchronized to the master. Whenever several devices are linked within a system, there must always be a single master clock. The Hammerfall's intelligent clock control is very user-friendly. Selecting 'AutoSync' will activate this mode.
In AutoSync mode, the Hammerfall constantly scans all digital inputs for a valid signal. If this signal corresponds with the current playback sample rate, the card switches from the internal quartz (Sync Ref displays 'Internal') to a clock generated from the input signal (Sync Ref displays 'SPDIF' or 'ADATx'). This allows on-the-fly recording, even during playback, without having to synchronize the card to the input signal first. It also allows immediate playback at any sample rate without having to reconfigure the card.
AutoSync guarantees that normal record and record-while-play will always work correctly. In certain cases however, e.g. when the inputs and outputs of a DAT machine are connected directly to the Hammerfall, AutoSync causes feedback in the digital carrier, so synchronization breaks down. To remedy this, switch the card's clock mode over to 'Master'.

RME Support wrote:

There is no issue of compatibility and no "problem", it is simply an incorrect setup (44 vs 96).

Sorry if my english is not too good to explain things, I am also aware that I am trying to drive a Ferrari without a licence perhaps, but could you please advice on the best settings without using the word clock?

I used to set the RME as Master in the past (when I was on a Mac).
Perhaps that will solve the problem even if not solving the word clock issue.

On the Clock Mode panel should I set the card to AutoSync or Master or/and what about the other settings then?

What I am asking are simply the best working settings for the setup I am having since I am not an expert as you might see... and advices seem to differ a little sometimes.

That's why I am asking here.

Kind Regards, R.