Topic: TotalMix Live Lemur template

Hello all,

I used the most recent Lemur template RME posted (the one that includes meters) and made some edits to make it more useful (to me anyway) for live work.  Specifically it allows one "click" control of submixes from the main mixer page.   It also uses scripting of color changes to more clearly highlight which submix is active.  To be fully useful to others this template requires some modifications to account for how each of us uses TM in a live setting, so I am posting what I hope are clear instructions on how to make these edits:

The template is in the folder linked below, and is named TotalMix Live 080713 (note the "live" part as there is another template in the same folder).

http://nomadrecordingstudio.com/Lemur/

I cleared space on the right by deleting buttons I don't find very useful for live work (e.g. dim, recall, speaker B) and added buttons to directly select different submixes.  I my case I have FOH, wedges/foldback. and three IEMs, but these can be tailored to suit one's needs.

For each button I used the "selectSubmix" command and scripting to change the color of each button so that the button associated the selected submix is yellow, and all others are blue.  Each button has its own name within Lemur, called Submix1-Submix5. 

In the example below I clicked the Submix2 button, for which I added the text field "IEM 2."  On the lower right, you can see that I have clicked the "action" command associated with this button.  In the panel bottom center you can see the script that is activated each time the button is pushed.  The script 1) assigns the submix I want, in this case 9, 2) changes the color of the Submix2 button to yellow, and 3) assigns the colors of the other submixes to blue.  One can easily see which submix is selected in this way.  Note that TM expects a decimal for each submix, so you need to specify you want e.g. submix 1.0, not just 1.


http://nomadrecordingstudio.com/Lemur/Set%20submix%20-%20Action%20script.jpg



To change the name of the text shown in each button, go the lower right panel again and click the "init" command. You will then be able to type in whatever text you want in the first line of the lower center panel:


http://www.nomadrecordingstudio.com/Lemur/Set%20submix%20-%20init%20script.jpg



The only bug I have found is minor but I am not sure what the problem is.  Upon launching, all of these submix section buttons have a black background.  Once you select any of them, they all jump to their appropriate blue or yellow color.  If anyone knows how to fix this please let me know, but it does not affect any functionality.

I also made some minor formatting changes to the template RME provided.  I moved the name of each track above the decibel display, and made the decibel display a bit smaller and a darker color so I can more quickly spot the name of the input or output.  Lastly, I added record, play, and stop buttons in the Reverb/Echo page.  Note you need to double click "stop" to stop a recording.

Hope this is helpful.  Please let me know if anything is unclear or if you have suggestions for improvements.

Cheers,

David

Re: TotalMix Live Lemur template

Thanks David!

I just quickly edited the template for my own use. smile
I noticed that your submix selection button colors don't follow the tmfx submix selection either. So they work if you use ONLY them for submix selection and not the outputs section or TMFX itself. I found this kinda confusing, and simply edited the buttons to stay blue all the time. Also I copied the submix label from the original template back, to show the actual active submix. Did you actually mean to remove it for some reason, or was it accidentally removed as there was still space for it?

Perhaps you'll be able to get the feedback working? Sorry I can't help you there, as I still haven't found the time to study OSC properly..

RME Fireface UFX+ | RME Fireface UFX | RME Babyface Pro |

3 (edited by neirbod 2013-08-08 15:25:52)

Re: TotalMix Live Lemur template

bsfreq wrote:

So they work if you use ONLY them for submix selection and not the outputs section or TMFX itself.

Hi there,

The buttons are designed to work only with submix selection, not for selecting outputs.  For the latter, I just click the "output" button in the upper right and then make any fader edits I need.  Maybe I am misunderstanding something in your post.

EDIT - Ahh, I may know what you mean.  In TM there is an option in the one of the menus to either have one of your OSC controllers control submix selection or not.  I am not at my studio so can't recall the exact location or language.  You may have to toggle this to see the output row in TM reflect the OSC commands.  If not engaged, TM will still show whatever submix you last selected *within TM* regardless of what is pushed on the iPad.  But importantly, the OSC commands will still affect the submix selected and shown on the iPad.  For example, select Out 1/2 in TM and set all faders to -infinity.  Now select a different submix, say Out 3/4, again within TM.  Now on the iPad, use the new buttons to select Out 1/2 and pull some faders up.  In TM you will still see AN 3/4 selected.  But, the fader movements you made within Lemur have taken effect in the background.  Click Out 1/2 in TM and you will see the faders have moved.  This is not a feature of my template, but how TM responds to any template, and is in fact a great feature for setting up a system with multiple OSC controllers.

bsfreq wrote:

Also I copied the submix label from the original template back, to show the actual active submix. Did you actually mean to remove it for some reason, or was it accidentally removed as there was still space for it?

For submix selection, the color should reflect the submix that is selected.  This is why I deliberately removed the submix label - it provides redundant information and takes up space. 


bsfreq wrote:

Perhaps you'll be able to get the feedback working? Sorry I can't help you there, as I still haven't found the time to study OSC properly..

I am not sure I am understanding.  Is feedback is not working on your system, or is it working for submix selection (as it was intended).  Feedback for submix selection works fine on my system.  It is pretty simple as you can see in the script - when you click the Submix1 button make it turn yellow, and change the colors of Submix2-5 to blue.  This should work even if the UFX is not connected since it does not rely on any information coming back from the UFX.  Are you getting *no* feedback, or *incorrect* feedback?

Re: TotalMix Live Lemur template

neirbod wrote:

The buttons are designed to work only with submix selection, not for selecting outputs.  For the latter, I just click the "output" button in the upper right and then make any fader edits I need.  Maybe I am misunderstanding something in your post.

You may have misunderstood. Submix selection was exactly what I was talking about. It's just that inside the lemur template, submix selection is done by selecting the outputs-view first, and then clicking on the "sub" button of the wanted output. (just below the mute button) And TMFX does follow this submix selection properly. It's just that your submix buttons don't. So if you want to control some submix that's not selectable with these few buttons you made, then you have to go to outputs view, and select submix from there. And if you do this, then your buttons don't follow no more. (they still show the last selection as active (yellow))

Also, when you have a TMFX window linked to OSC Control, and you select a submix there, your buttons don't follow. The default lemur template however does follow. You can see the "SUB" button color change accordingly on the outputs view, and also the submix label shows the real selected submix. I think, if you can get feedback of the selected submix to your buttons, then the black background problem might be fixed too. smile

neirbod wrote:

EDIT - Ahh, I may know what you mean.  In TM there is an option in the one of the menus to either have one of your OSC controllers control submix selection or not.  I am not at my studio so can't recall the exact location or language.  You may have to toggle this to see the output row in TM reflect the OSC commands.  If not engaged, TM will still show whatever submix you last selected *within TM* regardless of what is pushed on the iPad.  But importantly, the OSC commands will still affect the submix selected and shown on the iPad.  For example, if select Out 1/2 in TM and set all faders to -infinity.  Now select a different submix, say Out 3/4.  Now on the iPad, use the new buttons to select Out 1/2 and pull some faders up.  In TM you will still see AN 1/2 selected.  But, the fader movements you made within Lemur happen in the background.  Click Out 1/2 in TM and you will see the faders have moved.  This is not a feature of my template, but how TM responds to any template, and is in fact a great feature.

Actually each OSC controller can have it's own submix selected, and from TMFX you can select what controller the TMFX window is linked to. (if you want to link them) But there is no problem between TMFX and lemur. My submix selections work properly both ways. It's just the buttons you made that don't follow if I use something else (than these buttons) to select the submix.


neirbod wrote:

For submix selection, the color should reflect the submix that is selected.  This is why I deliberately removed the submix label - it provides redundant information and takes up space.

There are times you might want to control some other submix than one of those five.


neirbod wrote:

I am not sure I am understanding.  Is feedback is not working on your system, or is it working for submix selection (as it was intended).  Feedback for submix selection works fine on my system.  It is pretty simple as you can see in the script - when you click the Submix1 button make it turn yellow, and change the colors of Submix2-5 to blue.  This should work even if the UFX is not connected since it does not rely on any information coming back from the UFX.  Are you getting *no* feedback, or *incorrect* feedback?

Feedback is working. Your buttons are working too, but don't get their feedback from TMFX which would be the best way..

RME Fireface UFX+ | RME Fireface UFX | RME Babyface Pro |

5 (edited by neirbod 2013-08-08 16:16:39)

Re: TotalMix Live Lemur template

I see now what you mean, and I agree.  In my case I only use a relatively small and set number of submixes, and mix only using Lemur.  For someone who wants to use submixes that don't have dedicated buttons, or who uses both Lemur and TM for controlling submixes, I can see how the current version of the template is problematic.

The solution to making this template more universally useful seems to be 1) having each button's color reflect what TM is reporting as the selected submix (e.g., if labelSumix = AN 3/4 then color = yellow, else color = blue), and 2) putting the labelSubmix field back.  I am far from an expert in Lemur programming so it may take a while to work out the syntax, but it seems simple in theory.  If you (or anyone else) can help with the "if then" syntax I will gladly accept the help!

Re: TotalMix Live Lemur template

Hi,

Tested the live template, and it is not workable for me without the feedback from TM for the submix knobs.
I even did not found how to reassign the knobs to other submixes.

But the idea is superb for live mixing.

Re: TotalMix Live Lemur template

neirbod wrote:

The solution to making this template more universally useful seems to be 1) having each button's color reflect what TM is reporting as the selected submix (e.g., if labelSumix = AN 3/4 then color = yellow, else color = blue), and 2) putting the labelSubmix field back.  I am far from an expert in Lemur programming so it may take a while to work out the syntax, but it seems simple in theory.  If you (or anyone else) can help with the "if then" syntax I will gladly accept the help!

Yes, that's exactly what's needed here. I would gladly help, but I'm probably even more novice in lemur programming than you. Just done some simple editing so far, and I'm very busy with other stuff right now, so don't hold your breath. wink


Derick wrote:

I even did not found how to reassign the knobs to other submixes.

On David's first post and first image, the very first line of code
...'/setSubmix',9.0);
That 9.0 is the submix. Just change to 1.0 to select submix 1-2,
3.0 selects submix out 3-4 etc...

RME Fireface UFX+ | RME Fireface UFX | RME Babyface Pro |

Re: TotalMix Live Lemur template

bsfreq wrote:
Derick wrote:

I even did not found how to reassign the knobs to other submixes.

On David's first post and first image, the very first line of code
...'/setSubmix',9.0);
That 9.0 is the submix. Just change to 1.0 to select submix 1-2,
3.0 selects submix out 3-4 etc...

Thanks for that, i give it a try.

Re: TotalMix Live Lemur template

bsfreq wrote:

On David's first post and first image, the very first line of code
...'/setSubmix',9.0);
That 9.0 is the submix. Just change to 1.0 to select submix 1-2,
3.0 selects submix out 3-4 etc...

Correct, but keep in mind for mono channels you need to subtract 1 from each as AN 1 on total mix is addressed by SetSubmix, 0.0 etc.

For stereo outputs either number works.  So for AN 1/2 stereo either SetSubmix 0.0 or 1.0 will work.  I used the larger numbers in my template as all my mixes are stereo and it avoids the difficult math when review the script wink

Re: TotalMix Live Lemur template

Ok, thanks for the info

11 (edited by Derick 2013-08-09 17:19:25)

Re: TotalMix Live Lemur template

Hi,

I want to ad metering to the master fader on the mixer page.
Copied metering 8 to the space right next the masterfader (reduced the width), but i cant assign the metering to it.
What arguments do i use to assign it ?

ps. i copied the metering with the ipad connected and it works if i am on the outputs page, but not on the inputs and the playback page

12 (edited by neirbod 2013-08-13 04:04:00)

Re: TotalMix Live Lemur template

I uploaded a new template for you to try.  The submix buttons no longer change color for reasons described below for those who care.  Instead I added back the text box that RME includes in their standard template.  I also changed the output names to more generic ones.   As described above, selected submixes and text displayed on each button are easily editable.  The new file is in the folder below and named Totalmix_Live_130812. 

http://nomadrecordingstudio.com/Lemur/

It proved difficult to program color change in the buttons because the only feedback from a submix change within TM is a text string that returns the user-defined output names.  I could develop if/then statements to check e.g. if the text string is AN 3/4 then the AN 3/4 button turns yellow.  But, since everyone names their outputs differently this became harder to program.

Re: TotalMix Live Lemur template

Thanks, i will try it out and change it for my needs. (put back the "mute fx" in stead off "talkback"
Did you have a look at the master metering ?, i tried a few things, but it does only work in the output page.