Topic: HELP please ! hdspe madi fx not working with protools on Mac !

I'm trying to get the new RME hdspe madi fx card working with Protools.
I've spent a few days trying every possible configuration without success.
I'm using a Mac Pro. Now on OS Lion 10.7.4 ( but I've tried every version since
the Snow Leopard OS 10.6.8).
I'm using an SSL Xlogic Alpha Link Madi and an Antelope Iscochrome word clock.
Protools is now on 10.3.1, but I also tried version 9.6 and all versions since 10.0
Protools always crashes after the "DAE" screen.

I have absolutely no problem with Cubase 6 or Wavelab 7
Any idea or do I have to send the Hdspe back to my dealer ?

Thanks for helping.

2

Re: HELP please ! hdspe madi fx not working with protools on Mac !

ProTools might be overloaded by the high number of channels presented at start. Sorry, don't think somebody of our team tried that. You should ask Avid about that.

Regards
Matthias Carstens
RME

Re: HELP please ! hdspe madi fx not working with protools on Mac !

I can give it a try here on Monday or so. If you don't hear from me here, feel free to remind me by mail...

Regards,
Daniel Fuchs
RME

Regards
Daniel Fuchs
RME

Re: HELP please ! hdspe madi fx not working with protools on Mac !

Thanks for answering.

Any news or solution today ?

Re: HELP please ! hdspe madi fx not working with protools on Mac !

Hello,

I seem to be able to reproduce the crash, but it might also be related to a possible issue with my iLok.
I've contacted Avid, will get back when I hear from them. I'm afraid I can not present a quick solution.

Regards
Daniel Fuchs
RME

Regards
Daniel Fuchs
RME

Re: HELP please ! hdspe madi fx not working with protools on Mac !

Hi, I am having the same issue. I am able to load Pro Tools, but when I switch the playback engine to MADI FX, it crashes immediately. I was hoping someone had any idea of how to solve this.

I am running Mac OSX 10.6.8, Pro Tools 9.0.6, I have tried it with Pro Tools HD 9.0.6 and Pro Tools 10.2  and 10.2 HD. But nothing worked.

Any one else having this issue?

Re: HELP please ! hdspe madi fx not working with protools on Mac !

Avid are aware of it, but no update or solution as of yet.

Regards
Daniel Fuchs
RME

Regards
Daniel Fuchs
RME

Re: HELP please ! hdspe madi fx not working with protools on Mac !

I have finally changed the card...
no solution for instance...
the previous hdspe madi version (non fx) works perfectly with protools 10
on Mac. No complication any more !

Re: HELP please ! hdspe madi fx not working with protools on Mac !

Hi Hobiwan, How many channels do you get with PT 10 and RME MADI? 32? How is the latency?

Thanks for the help!

Re: HELP please ! hdspe madi fx not working with protools on Mac !

The latest update from ProTools probably fixed part of the problem (update 10.3.2).

In 10.3.1, I unchecked inputs/outputs 33-64 making the HDSPe a 32x32 audio interface.
The IO setup on ProTools listed all 64 MADI channels even though only 32 were active.

Now in ProTools 10.3.2 - only inputs 1-32 and outputs 1-32 are available in the IO setup.
This may solve your problem.

Studio: RME UFX PT11, Studio One 2.5, Waves, UAD..
Live: RME UFX, Octopre, Rodes, Shure

Re: HELP please ! hdspe madi fx not working with protools on Mac !

Hi Szuleta,

I have the complete production toolkit v2 and can get 64 channels in and out with the rme madi !

Re: HELP please ! hdspe madi fx not working with protools on Mac !

krazylain wrote:

The latest update from ProTools probably fixed part of the problem (update 10.3.2).
In 10.3.1, I unchecked inputs/outputs 33-64 making the HDSPe a 32x32 audio interface.
The IO setup on ProTools listed all 64 MADI channels even though only 32 were active.
Now in ProTools 10.3.2 - only inputs 1-32 and outputs 1-32 are available in the IO setup.
This may solve your problem.

Not for the HDSPe MADI FX.


Regards
Daniel Fuchs
RME

Regards
Daniel Fuchs
RME

13 (edited by DAW PLUS 2012-10-26 15:27:16)

Re: HELP please ! hdspe madi fx not working with protools on Mac !

This is a known ProTools issue. It has issues handling more than 64 I/O (or a bit higher, not sure where exactly the limit is). on Mac. On Windows, this is not a problem.
The same happens with a MadiXtreme 128, but SSL implemented a button to limit the MADI channel count to 32 per channel (on 2 MADI I/O).
Vegas 10 (on Windows of course) had such a limit as well, even 64 channels was a cause for crashing on startup, but this was fixed in v11.

Leon Herbers
www.dawplus.com

Re: HELP please ! hdspe madi fx not working with protools on Mac !

It would be more than great to Limit inside the driver in and outs like SSL
Since i have a RME MADi FX, i can not work with PT no more!

Aaaaaarggghhh

Please a New Driver with that Funktion, like Motu or SSL

Greetings Mathias

15 (edited by pjp 2012-12-07 08:17:15)

Re: HELP please ! hdspe madi fx not working with protools on Mac !

I sent email to avid and got a stupid answer:
                   
                                         Can you try to create a new administrator account and do all of the following :

                                                 http://avid.force.com/pkb/articles/en_U … g/en423791



Anyway, RME please provide  solution if possible, because avid do not care about our problems.
I begin to regret that protools is my main daw.

Re: HELP please ! hdspe madi fx not working with protools on Mac !

hobiwan wrote:

I have finally changed the card...
no solution for instance...
the previous hdspe madi version (non fx) works perfectly with protools 10
on Mac. No complication any more !

Thanks for posting this. I have the non-FX card in a machine with nuendo only. I'll pull that and give it a try on the protools machine.  (you may have save my butt on this one)

Thanks again

Re: HELP please ! hdspe madi fx not working with protools on Mac !

hobiwan wrote:

Hi Szuleta,

I have the complete production toolkit v2 and can get 64 channels in and out with the rme madi !

Actual 64 working channels, all at the same time?

Pål

18

Re: HELP please ! hdspe madi fx not working with protools on Mac !

Any news?

Re: HELP please ! hdspe madi fx not working with protools on Mac !

any news 2 ?

Please RME  ....

Re: HELP please ! hdspe madi fx not working with protools on Mac !

Not something that can be easily fixed on our side. Avid are well aware of it, though. The more people they hear from about it, the better...


Regards
Daniel Fuchs
RME

Regards
Daniel Fuchs
RME

Re: HELP please ! hdspe madi fx not working with protools on Mac !

I use MAGIX Sequoia on Macbook Pro by bootcamp Windows 7 with Sonnet echo express, RME HDSPe MADI FX.
It is extremely good working.

Today, I was checked the latest update version Pro Tools 10.3.4 Released on March 11, 2013 on Mac OS with RME HDSPe MADI FX.
it was still not working.

Best Regards

22

Re: HELP please ! hdspe madi fx not working with protools on Mac !

kzng wrote:

I use MAGIX Sequoia on Macbook Pro by bootcamp Windows 7 with Sonnet echo express, RME HDSPe MADI FX.
It is extremely good working.

Today, I was checked the latest update version Pro Tools 10.3.4 Released on March 11, 2013 on Mac OS with RME HDSPe MADI FX.
it was still not working.

Best Regards

uuuh AVID

23

Re: HELP please ! hdspe madi fx not working with protools on Mac !

I cannot believe this!!! Its 2013 not 1997!!  I  just wasted a whole day trying to run Pro tools on a system running HDSP FX, so now we have purchased a 600€ software to run on 6000€ of ADDA which there is no chance to use PT or refund the software because you have to register to run it. UTTER CRAP!

Is there any chance this is fixed in 10.3.5 or PT 11?

24

Re: HELP please ! hdspe madi fx not working with protools on Mac !

Word is that PT11 will support external (non AVID) interfaces with lots of channels, like the MADI FX. Haven't tested that myself...

Regards
Matthias Carstens
RME

Re: HELP please ! hdspe madi fx not working with protools on Mac !

RME Support wrote:

Not something that can be easily fixed on our side. Avid are well aware of it, though. The more people they hear from about it, the better...


Regards
Daniel Fuchs
RME

Hi Daniel,
Well I'm sure its not something easy to fix but protools is the most popular software for guys that record music on small systems and will mix it in a pro studio. ALL pro mixers using Protools !
is it such a big issue to have an option to disable some of the I\O so the hdspe madi fx will work with protools ?

I purchased the card just a few month ago and opened it today to find out that its not working for me..
is it going to be the same issue with the new madiface XT ??

I think you should handle this soon.
there are a lot of people like me out there that will continue using protools for many reasons but you'll loose them.
Kind Regards,
Yaron

Re: HELP please ! hdspe madi fx not working with protools on Mac !

As mentioned, the problem is in Pro Tools, so the fix has to come from them. We have sent hardware to them so they can track down the problem. We have no information about a timetable for the fix.

Regards,
Jeff Petersen
Synthax Inc.

Re: HELP please ! hdspe madi fx not working with protools on Mac !

what about the option to disable 2 of the three madi ports ?

Re: HELP please ! hdspe madi fx not working with protools on Mac !

Would "Forcing" the MADIface-XT to operate in USB2 mode result in the ASIO Driver only reporting 64x64 I/O's (or whatever with AES and Analog) to the Host?  Or does the host still see all ASIO channels over USB2, but can only use MADI channels 1-64?

Just curious how that "USB2 Channel Limit" part works, and if it might help PT users.  Maybe the driver could allow you to manually select a faux USB2 mode to artificially limit channels even when using USB3 or PCIe? cool

MADIface-XT+ARC / 3x HDSP MADI / ADI648
2x SSL Alphalink MADI AX
2x Multiface / 2x Digiface /2x ADI8

29

Re: HELP please ! hdspe madi fx not working with protools on Mac !

USB 2 mode means the unit reboots and uses a different driver (although you install only one). But IMHO it will not work with PT either, as there are 68 ins and 70 outs.

Regards
Matthias Carstens
RME

Re: HELP please ! hdspe madi fx not working with protools on Mac !

Hi all. I just spend the last hour venting and fuming at the lack of support for my shiny new MADI FX card with Pro Tools 10. And then I turned to Open Source software for a neat solution!

Use Jack to create a virtual device, offering 32 channels, and mapping to 32 of the MADI FX channels. Hey presto. I'm not sure if there are implications to latency or anything, but it has been apparently stable for the last hour or so here.

http://www.jackosx.com/

HTH.

31

Re: HELP please ! hdspe madi fx not working with protools on Mac !

pintsized wrote:

Hi all. I just spend the last hour venting and fuming at the lack of support for my shiny new MADI FX card with Pro Tools 10. And then I turned to Open Source software for a neat solution!

Use Jack to create a virtual device, offering 32 channels, and mapping to 32 of the MADI FX channels. Hey presto. I'm not sure if there are implications to latency or anything, but it has been apparently stable for the last hour or so here.

http://www.jackosx.com/

HTH.

Works very well.:-)
Thank you

Re: HELP please ! hdspe madi fx not working with protools on Mac !

Hey Pintsized,
Can you describe what should I do ?
Do I need to change the sample rate & buffer size each time according to my sessions ?
(sometimes its 48k or 44.1..)
Thanks !

33

Re: HELP please ! hdspe madi fx not working with protools on Mac !

Junior wrote:

Hey Pintsized,
Can you describe what should I do ?
Do I need to change the sample rate & buffer size each time according to my sessions ?
(sometimes its 48k or 44.1..)
Thanks !

In Jack pilot-yes

34

Re: HELP please ! hdspe madi fx not working with protools on Mac !

MC wrote:

Word is that PT11 will support external (non AVID) interfaces with lots of channels, like the MADI FX.

We hope,but............AVID rant

35

Re: HELP please ! hdspe madi fx not working with protools on Mac !

Maybe RME could come up with a special release driver, with just 32 input and output channels like the Jack Pilot. That way PT10 and the MADI FX could almost be friends...

Re: HELP please ! hdspe madi fx not working with protools on Mac !

regarding this problem... could someone test this?
I don't have an RME MADIfx card or I would.

One of the chaps at Avid Australia made this suggestion...

Basically you use an 'aggregate device' on the mac to trick pro tools into accessing the MADIfx driver.

on the mac launch 'audio midi settings'.

in the audio tab;
1. create a new aggregate device and name it 'pro tools aggregate device'
2. check the box next to RME MADIFX to include it in the aggregate device.
3. make sure you exclude any other audio interfaces from the aggregate device by un-checking its box (this includes built in input/output.
4. launch PT 10 or 11
5. in the playback engine dialogue found under the setup menu choose 'pro tools aggregate device' from the pull down menu.
6. open 'I/O..' under the pro tools setup menu.
7. you should see all available channels on the MADIFX but only be able to use the first 32I/O due to PT restrictions on third party devices.

This should be a usable workaround.
tell me if it works and I will report back to Avid...
cheers.

Melbourne, Australia.
Pro Audio Dealership.
FF UFX / Macbook 2008 2.4GHz/6GB RAM

37

Re: HELP please ! hdspe madi fx not working with protools on Mac !

Mr Evenge wrote:

regarding this problem... could someone test this?
This should be a usable workaround.
tell me if it works and I will report back to Avid...

I've followed your instructions with PT11*. It does not work. When opening PT, I get the same message and PT closes after I hit OK:

IO channel count for current playback device has changed. Please restart Pro Tools.

Best regards,
Max

*PT 11.0.0 on Mac OS 10.8.4 MBP 2.6i7/8GB, MADI FX in Sonnet Echo Express Thunderbolt, Firmware v87, Driver 1.08, Clock set to Master 48k also in Aggregate device. Tried both launching the same aggregate device after changing FROM Internal Mic/Headphones TO MADI FX while PT off, and also as you suggested creating a separate aggregate device and switching TO it in the playback engine dialog. Even tried uninstalling PT, re-installing it and before first opening creating the aggregate device. All the same.

Re: HELP please ! hdspe madi fx not working with protools on Mac !

I've followed your instructions with PT11*. It does not work. When opening PT, I get the same message and PT closes after I hit OK:

Ok, thanks for testing. I will let my guy at Avid know it didn't work. Hopefully we get some action on it soon. Thanks.

Melbourne, Australia.
Pro Audio Dealership.
FF UFX / Macbook 2008 2.4GHz/6GB RAM

39 (edited by Gregmac 2013-08-02 05:21:41)

Re: HELP please ! hdspe madi fx not working with protools on Mac !

RME Support wrote:

Not something that can be easily fixed on our side. Avid are well aware of it, though. The more people they hear from about it, the better...


Regards
Daniel Fuchs
RME

Hi Daniel,

just bought a new Madi FX and have the same problem. Mostly I use Samplitude on PC but have a number of other producers using my studio regularly that use protools on the MAC on my system so it's a bummer for them. I geuss they can use windows version. However I read this qupote at the AVID forum and it seems SSL have written it into their driver. Though I agree and see it is Protools problem I can't see them doing anything soon. It looks like it must be possible in the driver.
Here's the quote re SSL and UA
"Universal Audio updated their drivers with a ProTools mode to allow proper communication and selection of channels for route... SSL does this as well with their MadiXtreme64 and 128 cards. For example since MADI is a 64 channel format (or 32 at high sample rates) they have the ability to select which banks of inputs are seen... so when using AlphalinkMAX attached to it, I can select with I want ProTools to see 24 analog io plus 8 Digital inputs, or if I want 24 Digital and 8 of the analog. I also believe Antelope Audio has address this with their Orion32, which is 32 analog io along with 16 channels of ADAT IO. "

cheers  Greg

Re: HELP please ! hdspe madi fx not working with protools on Mac !

Hi all, just got this DM from Greg:

I was wondering if you new how well the latency compensation worked via jack when adding tracks or punching in? It would be great if you could write up a post about that on the forum

On closer inspection Jack doesn't add any latency at all, only additional CPU overhead: http://jackaudio.org/no_extra_latency

I've just recorded and mixed a large session with Jack sitting between the Madi FX and Pro Tools, and had absolutely no issues whatsoever. My Mac isn't particularly modern either, so the CPU overhead doesn't appear to be dramatic.

It's worth noting that the CPU usage for Jack goes up with the number of channels used, so if, for example, you're tracking with up to 32 channels of input but only using 2 or 4 outputs until mix time, you can save some CPU during tracking by reducing the number of virtual output channels.

I didn't find this necessary, but I imagine some people might.

I do find this all a bit disappointing though to be honest. Yes, it's a limitation in Pro Tools Native, but also I expect more from RME than to release a product like this with evidently no testing on a very widely used DAW. We're not talking about corner-case instability here, we're talking about complete failure to load Pro Tools, so either it simply wasn't tested or RME decided it didn't matter. It does appear other vendors such as UA and SSL deal with the issue more elegantly.

This aside, now my Madi FX is up and running, I am hugely impressed with it on all other fronts.

41

Re: HELP please ! hdspe madi fx not working with protools on Mac !

@pintsized: thanks for the research! That's really useful to know. I have also tested Jack and got it to work on my system.

Adjusting a driver to work with a defective and restrictive software is no fun - it works fine with all other software on both Mac and PC, and there is not only Pro Tools for professional recording. I'm pretty sure AVID would just have to comment out a few lines of code and it would work properly and let you record all MADI FX channels. Because what's causing the crash is obviously related to the restriction itself. A proper "limitation" would work regardless of how many channels core audio offers.

Re: HELP please ! hdspe madi fx not working with protools on Mac !

pintsized wrote:

Hi all, just got this DM from Greg:


On closer inspection Jack doesn't add any latency at all, only additional CPU overhead: http://jackaudio.org/no_extra_latency

I've just recorded and mixed a large session with Jack sitting between the Madi FX and Pro Tools, and had absolutely no issues whatsoever. My Mac isn't particularly modern either, so the CPU overhead doesn't appear to be dramatic.

It's worth noting that the CPU usage for Jack goes up with the number of channels used, so if, for example, you're tracking with up to 32 channels of input but only using 2 or 4 outputs until mix time, you can save some CPU during tracking by reducing the number of virtual output channels.

Hi Pintsized,

thanks very much for that research also. Just noticed I hadn't subscribed to the thread and really pleased that you had time to answer this now I have looked back. So seems we can safely use Jack.

cheers  Greg

Re: HELP please ! hdspe madi fx not working with protools on Mac !

Hello all.

I'm not sure what version of ProTools you are all using (I use Nuendo) however the latest software release for ProTools 10 (10.3.7), just released on August 9th, apparently has a fix for the overload issues present with high channel-count RME cards. Here is the text from the 10.3.7 release notes:

Issues Resolved in Pro Tools 10.3.7
Crashes associated with the use of RME HDSPe MADI, HDSP PCIe and UAD Apollo interfaces have been resolved.
(PTSW-164626, PTSW-182520, PTSW-182588)

Those with problems may want to try this latest ProTools software update and see if it resolves their issues.

I'm not sure when these fixes will make it into the ProTool 11 software release cycle, but most people still seem to be on ProTools 10 due to the low number of 64-bit plug-ins available on 11.

Kind regards,
George

Re: HELP please ! hdspe madi fx not working with protools on Mac !

works for me!

cheers  Greg

Re: HELP please ! hdspe madi fx not working with protools on Mac !

Thanks for the update Greg.
Glad to hear it's working as expected and for taking the time to report back.

Kind regards, George.

Re: HELP please ! hdspe madi fx not working with protools on Mac !

Hallo,
Today, I was checked the latest update version Pro Tools 10.3.7 on Mac OS 10.7.2 MacBookAir 13inch 1,7 GHz Intel Core i5 with Sonnet echo express & RME HDSPe MADI FX & Micstasy.
It is good working.
Best Regards

Re: HELP please ! hdspe madi fx not working with protools on Mac !

I have also quickly tested both 10.3.7 and PT 11 with the MADI FX on a bootcamped Mac Pro (W7/64) and found no apparent problems. I.e. the multichannel bug in PT 10 is gone, as confirmed by Avid.


Regards
Daniel Fuchs
RME

Regards
Daniel Fuchs
RME

Re: HELP please ! hdspe madi fx not working with protools on Mac !

I just got a Pro Tools 10.3.8 HD ,on mac pro 10.8.5, I use Aggregate Device (Fireface 800 & HDSPe MADI FX), and I Need record 98 stereo(196 mono) tracks at the same time, But I just can use first 16 stereo (32 mono) tracks.(There is no error massage popup)

Seems not working perfect here, Its Pro Tools HD version!!!! I can record all 98 tracks at the same time in Cubase, somebody can help me ?

Re: HELP please ! hdspe madi fx not working with protools on Mac !

I think you still only get 32 tracks with protools native. The fix only stopped it crashing.

Re: HELP please ! hdspe madi fx not working with protools on Mac !

That's correct. The 32-channel limit and the bug that caused crashes are entirely separate matters.

Regards
Daniel Fuchs
RME

Regards
Daniel Fuchs
RME