1 Topic by Jmd87 (edited by Jmd87 2014-04-01 11:56:26)

  • Jmd87
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Topic: Raydat/AIO seems to be loosing treble after 10k

Hi,

I have done some tests using a tone generator and have found that it looks like (not 100% sure!) that the raydat card seems to be loosing treble after the 10k freq it looses about 10db by the time it gets to 15k which is alot.

I have fed the tone through Cubase 7.5, Audition CC and straight into the Raydat and straight back (bypassing the mixing desk and anything else) out and they all show the same thing.

We have a Raydat Card and an AIO card linked together via the small supplied sync lead. The raydat is the master wordclock for the system using the wordclock expansion card.

The setup goes:

Soundcraft Adat outs   ---> Raydat Adat In's
Second PC Adat out     ---> Raydat In's  (Only occasionally turned on)
Raydat AES                 ---> Out to AIO AES In
AIO Analog out's          ---> Mackie Big Knob
Mackie Big Knob          ---> Adam AX7's
AIO Headphone out     ---> Beyerdyanmics DT770

Wordclock: Raydat ---> Soundcraft ---> Second PC Terminated properly


Do you have any ideas what this could be? The computer I have is more than powerfull enough so I don't see it being that.

Many thanks
Joe

  • From: Germany
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Re: Raydat/AIO seems to be loosing treble after 10k

It is still not clear how exactly you measure the frequency response here - if at all, i.e. if it is not just a subjective impression. What kind of "tone" have you been testing with?

As I said before, there is no way the Raydat can have any influence on the frequency response. If I'm not mistaken, even the Emphasis option for the SPDIF out, which could have a certain effect (on the converter) is no longer part of the settings dialog.

Therefore, you will have to look elsewhere in your signal path. And you will need to measure the effect precisely.


Regards
Daniel Fuchs
RME

Regards
Daniel Fuchs
RME

RME Support's Website

  • Jmd87
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Re: Raydat/AIO seems to be loosing treble after 10k

Hi Daniel,

Thanks for the reply. I have tested it with a tone generator on a Sine tone ranging from 900 to 15k. Thats the thing though I have tested it straight out of the Raydat/AIO bypassing everything including speakers, cubase etc etc and it still shows the same sad

There are no other signal paths. Im just wondering if there could really be anything setup wrong on the raydat/AIO (that I could have done) at all?

Many thanks
Joe

  • From: Germany
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Re: Raydat/AIO seems to be loosing treble after 10k

Jmd87 wrote:

Thanks for the reply. I have tested it with a tone generator on a Sine tone ranging from 900 to 15k. Thats the thing though I have tested it straight out of the Raydat/AIO bypassing everything including speakers, cubase etc etc and it still shows the same sad

What "shows" what, and where and how...? You are still not telling us how you are measuring the effect. Without details, this discussion is a bit pointless.


There are no other signal paths. Im just wondering if there could really be anything setup wrong on the raydat/AIO (that I could have done) at all?

I can certainly repeat myself over and over. There is no way technically the Raydat could have an influence on a signal's frequency response. And without a reproducible measurement and more than just a vague "seems to be loosing treble", there is not much we can tell you...


Regards
Daniel Fuchs
RME

Regards
Daniel Fuchs
RME

RME Support's Website

  • Jmd87
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Re: Raydat/AIO seems to be loosing treble after 10k

Hi,

It is being tested using a tone generator and a frequency analyser the tone being sent from 900 to 15k. from 900 to 10k the analyser reports not loss in DB. As soon as it hits 10k - 15k it losses 10DB of treble.

Im not asking you to repeat yourself lol I'm trying to just suggest things that maybe helpful in triggering any ideas. And I can reproduce the issue using any tone generator and an frequency analyser ive tried.

I have even moved the card to another completely separate computer that is not in anyway related to the music system and its exactly the same so I guess I'm kind of stuck if you can't help. My guess is it could be phasing in some way but thats just a guess.

Many thanks
Joe

  • From: Germany
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Re: Raydat/AIO seems to be loosing treble after 10k

The Raydat itself can neither cause a loss of treble nor any "phasing". And you are still not clear about the signal path. Which AD converter is converting the signal from your tone generator? Where exactly is the analyzer connected?
Apart from the fact that the lack of detailed information makes it extremely difficult to help here, you should take the fact that the RD itself can not possibly cause these problems as an important hint, not as a lack of help. It means you will need to analyze your signal path bit by bit, possibly including exchanging components, to find out where the issue originates.


Regards
Daniel Fuchs
RME

Regards
Daniel Fuchs
RME

RME Support's Website

  • Jmd87
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Re: Raydat/AIO seems to be loosing treble after 10k

Hi,

The Tone generator itself is adat. So comes out on adat from the generator into the raydat via an adat cable. It is connected to adat socket 1. I have tried it in all sockets just incase. The tone generator is accurate as we have used it in other studios and has worked great.

I wasn't saying you weren't trying to help me smile I really do appreciate that you are trying to help smile

Could there be a component failure on the card that could cause this do you think?

There is really no signal path to remove anymore it goes straight into the computer now now mixing desks or anything.

Kind Regards
Joe

  • From: Germany
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Re: Raydat/AIO seems to be loosing treble after 10k

If the signal generator has an ADAT output (could you specify the device?), what about the analyzer? No component failure can cause a loss of treble on an all-digital signal path...

Regards
Daniel Fuchs
RME

Regards
Daniel Fuchs
RME

RME Support's Website

  • Jmd87
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Re: Raydat/AIO seems to be loosing treble after 10k

Hi

Sure its a Finalizer 96K It has a built in tone generator. I have a few analysers which are From Samson, Behringer and Phonic.

And Ok thats fair enough smile

Many Thanks
Joe

10 Reply by MC

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Re: Raydat/AIO seems to be loosing treble after 10k

I would simply look at the level meters of TotalMix, ins and outs...

Regards
Matthias Carstens
RME

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  • Jmd87
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Re: Raydat/AIO seems to be loosing treble after 10k

Hi,

What am I looking for on the meters? All meters are just set to factory settings so all set to 0db

Many thanks
Joe

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Re: Raydat/AIO seems to be loosing treble after 10k

Level differences, obviously...  The input and output signal level during the tone sweep. Meters can not be "set to 0 dB", only the faders...

Regards
Daniel Fuchs
RME

Regards
Daniel Fuchs
RME

RME Support's Website

  • Jmd87
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Re: Raydat/AIO seems to be loosing treble after 10k

ah sorry I see what he means I shall try that and sorry I ment Faders!

Cheers
Joe

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Re: Raydat/AIO seems to be loosing treble after 10k

Hi,

Sorry to bring this old topic back up but I have this issue again. I have done some tests using a tone generator and have found that it looks like (not 100% sure!) that the raydat card seems to be loosing treble after the 10k freq it looses about 10db by the time it gets to 15k which is alot.

I have fed the tone through Cubase 7.5, Audition CC and straight into the RME and straight back out and they all show the same thing.

Do you have any ideas what this could be? The computer I have is more than powerfull enough so I don't see it being that.

Many thanks
Joe

  • From: Germany
  • Registered: 2007-04-10
  • Posts: 9,690

Re: Raydat/AIO seems to be loosing treble after 10k

There is no way the RD itself could cause such a phenomenon. Unless your totne generator and the subsequent device you use to receive the signal both had digital connections, the cause of the issue is more likely to be in your external signal path. How did you feed the RD in this test, through the above mentioned mixer?

Regards
Daniel Fuchs
RME

Regards
Daniel Fuchs
RME

RME Support's Website

  • Jmd87
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Re: Raydat/AIO seems to be loosing treble after 10k

Hi Daniel,

Thanks for the reply. We have tried going through the Soundcraft desk (the Above desk) and also directly out of the computer (bypassing the desk and anything else ) straight to our Adam Ax7's and also to a set of Beyerdynamic DT770 they all seem to appear dull wether i use Cubase, Audition or just windows Media Player and the there is the mention treble lose after 10k.

We now have one of your AIO cards not as we thought that maybe able to pin point the problem as we can no come straight out of the computer to a set of speakers.

Many thanks
Joe

17 Reply by MC

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Re: Raydat/AIO seems to be loosing treble after 10k

Reading all the above there seems to be a fundamental flaw: both Raydats need to be synced to each other. If they are driven as Aggregate Device Core Audio must use sample rate conversion on system level to compensate. Who is the real master in this setup - RD 1 or 2? Are they clocked together or running freely?

Regards
Matthias Carstens
RME

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  • Jmd87
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Re: Raydat/AIO seems to be loosing treble after 10k

Hi smile

Thansk for the reply!

The cards are synced together inside the system using the sync cable that comes in the box. I think Im going to have to abandon this thread and create a new as I have just read that It is for Mac when i am no longer using a Mac! Sorry to waste your time. I shall start a new thread with updated information!

Many thansk
Joe