Topic: Madiface XT via USB 3.0 - High DPC Load under ASIO

Hello!

I am a happy owner of one of the first Madiface XT. Amazing product, thanks a lot RME!

After the first test runs it seems that I can't get the XT running with a low DPC count.

Setup is as follows:
Lenovo ThinkPad T530 (Intel USB 3.0)
Win 7 Pro 64bit
Magix Sequoia 64bit
Madiface XT connected with the original USB 3.0 cable that came with it

Symptoms:
The system runs perfectly normal with a DPC count of arund 80 while idle. Starting Sequoia raises the bar to around 700, still no problems. I did a number of recordings with different interfaces using this configuration, one of them an old Madiface ExpressCard - all successful and without DPC trouble.
Whenever I set Sequoia to take the Madiface XT as ASIO-interface the DPC count shoots up to around 1700. I don't have to record-enable any tracks or start a recording, simply setting the interface seems to be enough to make the system freak out. Choosing another interface or MME instead of ASIO brings the DPC count down immediately.

Of course my first step was to update all relevant software and drivers. Sequoia is now v12.4.1.246, Intel USB 3.0 driver is 1.0.9.254, Madiface XT firmware is 165/54/30, XT driver is 0.9375. However, the problem is still present.

I know that using USB 3.0 is at my own risk and that I should rather use PCIe instead but apart from that I would like to solve the USB 3.0 problem. Ideas and suggestions are very welcome!

Is there anyone here with the same problem or even with a solution?

Thanks a lot!

Gero

Re: Madiface XT via USB 3.0 - High DPC Load under ASIO

Hi Gero

Thanks for reporting this. Please update this thread with your experiences.

thanks
Simon

Madiface XT, Madiface, 3x Micstasy, ADI8QS
Sequoia 17, W10 x64
https://bsound.co.nz/tools-nix

Re: Madiface XT via USB 3.0 - High DPC Load under ASIO

Does anyone have any further experiences or light to shed on this.  I would have thought a modern Thinkpad with Intel USB 3.0 chipset would work ok with the XT.  If they are not compatible this would totally influence my purchasing (I'm on a T430).
ExpressCard ports are missing from next gen notebooks.

Madiface XT, Madiface, 3x Micstasy, ADI8QS
Sequoia 17, W10 x64
https://bsound.co.nz/tools-nix

Re: Madiface XT via USB 3.0 - High DPC Load under ASIO

After even the Matrox card has finally arrived, I have just finished testing the setup under PCIe - impressive 2 hour recording of 196 tracks without any record error reported and a DPC history that did not exceed 450. Nice!

Since the Madiface XT seems to work perfectly when connected via PCIe I can only recommend this workaround to all Thinkpad users who want to use a Madiface XT with their laptop.

However, I am not completely sure that the RME driver is not to blame since the only action that raised my DPC count was to select the XT as recording device. This may have accessed the driver already and led to the bad performance. The Intel USB 3.0 driver was active before and after with the XT connected and did not lead to DPC spikes. Is there anyone more familiar with the operation of the driver? What more could I do to find out which part of the chain is responsible for that bug?

Thanks!

Gero

Re: Madiface XT via USB 3.0 - High DPC Load under ASIO

Have you closed down unnecessary services ie. wifi, lan and so on , tweaked your visual performance. BIOS setting no S.M.A.R.T and so on. Laptops is generally optimized for anything else but Realtime Audio:-).

Hendrup.

Re: Madiface XT via USB 3.0 - High DPC Load under ASIO

Hendrup wrote:

Have you closed down unnecessary services ie. wifi, lan and so on , tweaked your visual performance. BIOS setting no S.M.A.R.T and so on. Laptops is generally optimized for anything else but Realtime Audio:-).

Hendrup.

Technically correct, but may not be applicable in this case.  Thinkpads are fairly solid business notebooks, though they do come with a fair amount of Lenovo bloatware out of the box.  However my T430 optimised for recording can run all day with 1st gen Madiface recording 64 tracks and not even break a sweat or a glitch. 

Looking at my T430 devices by connection, the USB 3.0 root hub also has my mobile broadband device listed under it.  Gero, if you have same or similar you should try disabling and test again.

It's understood that the XT has certain needs of a modern USB 3 implementation, but the Thinkpad of this gen should meet that easily.  Would love to hear from more early adopters.

Madiface XT, Madiface, 3x Micstasy, ADI8QS
Sequoia 17, W10 x64
https://bsound.co.nz/tools-nix

7 (edited by Carlhynce 2014-02-18 09:06:30)

Re: Madiface XT via USB 3.0 - High DPC Load under ASIO

Hello together,

my Lenovo Thinkpad Edge E530c (i5) Win7 with Samplitude ProX shows exactly the same behaviour.
Unfortunately it does not have any expresscard slot. So it must work with usb. Which should be the future in recording multitrack with notebooks, because there is no other interface. And thats obviously the reason for the strong investment and research of RME in usb.

The behaviour is as follows:
without starting Samplitude, DPC realy low, less than 250.
When I start the DAW, DPC rises up to 1800. Sometimes Samplitude has cpu-overloads while recording the 2 analog inputs.
There are 3 usb 3.0 Ports which are not burdoned with other devices.
I checked that with the device manager. The single usb 2.0 Port shares with some other devices but behaves similar to the usb 3.0 ports.
I already switched off the dispensable devices in the device manager under the sight of DPC latency checker.
By the way my Madiface XT works perfect with an old Core2Duo Desktop PC even connected to the USB2 port.
I hope there is one "golden" Switch, which has to be toggled, to solve this problem.

Best Stefan

8

Re: Madiface XT via USB 3.0 - High DPC Load under ASIO

DPC values of 1800µs should not be. Let me give you an example. I have a current motherboard with Intel chipset and thus Intel USB 3 with the latest drivers.

Basically DPC values scale with the number of channels transferred via USB. The current number of channels, for example in ASIO, might be small, but the USB transfer is always all channels. You can see this when comparing a Babyface with a UFX, no audio/audio started. While DPC in these cases stays well below 1000µs, the effect is visible, and - important - caused outside our drivers.

With the XT I can easily get 1800µs DPC values as well - when I misconfigure the computer by setting the power scheme to Power Save. In Balanced mode the DPC values go down to around 1000 µs, with 394 channels I/O active - not that bad for a serial format. Setting the power scheme to High Performance gives DPC values of around 800µs.

The only way to get even lower values is by reducing the number of channels transferred over USB. This can be done by using only one MADI input via the Settings dialog's option 'Redundancy Mode'. The DPC values then are down to 300µs on my computer. This seems to be a nice workaround for any system with performance problems.

Regards
Matthias Carstens
RME

9 (edited by Carlhynce 2014-02-18 09:01:55)

Re: Madiface XT via USB 3.0 - High DPC Load under ASIO

Bingo! that´s been it. "Greenhorn Error". Essentially it has been the change of the energy saving status of win 7 which now is in "Ballanced Mode".
Even choosing "Redundancy Mode" in the driver dialog of Madiface XT helped improving the performance and brought down the dpc to an average load of around 700 µs.
"Ballanced mode" seems to be a bit better than "Maximum Performance Mode" because the cpu-allocation looks a bit more ballanced in the Task Manager.
Besides this, I followed some of the instructions of http://www.timos-welt.de/win7/ which I found in the link collection in this forum.
This fairly new notebook was equipped with a lot of software-supplement-security-and attention-rubbish which I also tidied up some way.

so, thank you and best regards
Stefan

Re: Madiface XT via USB 3.0 - High DPC Load under ASIO

Thanks a lot for chiming in and clearing that up, MC! And sorry for having suspected the driver smile

So if I understand you correctly the amount of channels I want to record is totally irrelevant for the load on the USB - recording only two channels with a Madiface XT without Redundancy Mode will always transmit all 394 channels over the USB? This would also explain why the DPC values did not change when I reduced the amount of channels to record - only Redundancy mode would have changed that.

I will take a deeper look into my computer's performance settings (since this is the first time I had issues I might have to tweak more than before) and make another attempt. I will let you know how it turns out.

Thanks very much so far!

Gero

11

Re: Madiface XT via USB 3.0 - High DPC Load under ASIO

Here is some more background information.

First of all: < the effect is ... caused outside our drivers.> I have to take that back.

While this is usually true, it wasn't with the MADIface USB driver. Its record part uses kernel functions and therefore causes a visible DPC latency. This latency scales with the current buffer size setting, and is therefore only noticeable at 256 and 512 samples.

As this DPC latency is caused within our own driver it does NOT affect recording or playback. DPC values like in the above posts of more than 1 ms do not mean that audio will be impossible at low buffer sizes. It just means that the current computer is most likely suffering from 'normal' dropouts because it is not optimized, so the buffer transfer to the software or the audio processing within the audio software will fail - the driver will not, and those failures are not caused by the DPC latencies of the driver (note that an optimized and powerful computer does not show values over 1 ms, as stated above).

Nevertheless - once we got aware of this we knew we had to improve it for several reasons. And that is what we did in the just released driver 0.9380. The DPC values are down more than 50%, making fully clear that if you have audio problems they are not caused by the driver's DPC latencies.

Regards
Matthias Carstens
RME

12 (edited by Potscrubber 2014-05-21 20:39:17)

Re: Madiface XT via USB 3.0 - High DPC Load under ASIO

Edit: moved to a new thread as it's a separate topic.

Madiface XT, Madiface, 3x Micstasy, ADI8QS
Sequoia 17, W10 x64
https://bsound.co.nz/tools-nix