• Chi
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Topic: Hammerfall multiface I and XP 32 sp3

Hello,

I recently upgraded my old desktop PC with a new(old) Hammerfall PCI Multiface ensemble.

I had been using an M-Audio fast track pro (USB1) for circa 10years!

So far the installation has been very smooth, unlike the former usb card, everything just worked  as per the instructions big_smile

My only concern is that my system is performing as is expected.  I have been reading too many blogs which indicate that  the Windows HAL choice can be crucial to performance.

The RME tech info uses the term "single CPU systems" in the FAQ about XP systems. Does that mean cpu's with a single core or systems using only one multicore  cpu?

My Details Are:

OS = XP32 SP3 Pro (ACPI multiprocessor)

CPU = Q9550 @stock speed
MoBO = Asus P5Q WS : Intel ICH10 Chipset
RAM = 4GB ddr2 corsair dom
GFX = Matrox G550 PCIe 32mb
HDD = 1x WD Velociraptor 500gb OS/System
        = 1x WD Velociraptor 500gb Audio
        = 1x Samsung SSD 500gb Samples/Instruments

BIOS - All C-states disabled
         - No overclocking
         - ACPI APIC enabled !!*
         - Storage controller- IDE !!*
         - Plug & Play OS enabled !!*

*Are these settings sub-optimal for a DAW?

Am I better off to reinstall XP as Standard PC, with ACHI storage?

Sorry to be a nusciance but Im finding the google info either confusing or conflicting.

With the Fast track pro I could run a large kontakt sampled piano library with a 256 buffer@44.1/48khz no probs, any lower and it was totally unusable.

With the multiface/PCI combo i can run the piano with a 128buffer@44.1/48khz with a pop now and again when playing faster/complex passages. @64buffer the pops dont really seem to get worse - very similar to 128buffer!

Using the RME card shows a much reduced ASIO meter in Cubase - very nice! But it seems im still unable to go use the 128 buffer size without anomolies (a little click).

I have read reports of folks running projects at the 64buffer size without any issues on seemingly comparable systems so Im wondering if my settings somewhere are sub-optimal?

The DPC latency tool shows no reading above 164usecs under load, usually around 9u under load which is MUCH lower than with the M audio card!

I have only 1 USB device attached to the PC - iConnectmidi4+ (just for midi)

The ASIO meter seems very low as does Task Manager CPU meter.

Only the ASIO meter in Cubase  goes from 10% to the red when the "click" happens. Very fast and then stabilises again for a while.

Anyway, thanks to anyone if they can offer some experienced advice! Am I getting the performace I should be from this rig?

Thanks

Chi

2 Reply by MC

  • MC
  • MC
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Re: Hammerfall multiface I and XP 32 sp3

> Only the ASIO meter in Cubase  goes from 10% to the red when the "click" happens. Very fast and then stabilises again for a while.

Now you will have to find out what causes this momentary CPU load. Open task Manager and maybe you can see it there.

Regarding IDE / AHCI: as far as I know the P5 Boards from Asus did not support AHCI. Or are you able to select that in the motherboard's BIOS?

Regards
Matthias Carstens
RME

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  • Chi
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Re: Hammerfall multiface I and XP 32 sp3

Right, I shall indeed see what happens in Task Manager.

The BIOS does have a setting for AHCI/IDE, and the board came with the drivers for Intel(R) Matrix Storage Manager + slipstream driver tool.

I have not yet updated the HDSP ASIO driver to the most recent 2014 ver.

It is currently running on the 3.05 ver. Could it matter in this case?

The HW PCI rev is 1.8 and driver ver 55.

Gonna go check the Task Manager during clicks...

Thanks alot for helping!

  • Chi
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Re: Hammerfall multiface I and XP 32 sp3

As per usual Task Manager wasnt to insightfull!

It showed Cubase as being the only process using the CPU.

@ 256 the Task Man says Cubase 5-8% when a click happens.

@ 128 "" 10-13% when a click

@ 64 "" 25-30% click

The visual display in Task Man does seem to show a small peak when a click occurs.

It seems to be related to me using the release pedal when playing.

I can deliberatley cause clicks by holding the pedal down and playing many notes together. The click wont happen though until I release the pedal again. This will not cause a click when set at 256 buffer, only lower values. 

Sadly the click will happen under ordinary playing conditions too < 256.
Even if the CPU is <10%

Its doesn not happen that often <256 unless I want it too, and its baffling as it can happen when the CPU appears untaxed with few notes being played.

Thats what lead me to question the HD but I honestly have no idea!

5 Reply by MC

  • MC
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Re: Hammerfall multiface I and XP 32 sp3

More info on the release pedal, please. Connected where? Does what? Used with what?

AHCI should bring better performance with hard drives, but I doubt it is relevant for the click problem. And you wil have to follow the workarounds in the web to change to AHCI, in case you installed Windows in IDE mode (no AHCI driver, no boot). In BIOS P&P OS is usually set to No, but again most probably not relevant for the clicks.

Task manager can be set to a higher refresh rate, but mabye the Sysinternals Process Explorer is better suited anyway. IF the peak is triggered outside Cubase.

Regards
Matthias Carstens
RME

MC's Website

6 Reply by Chi (edited by Chi 2014-06-07 15:47:35)

  • Chi
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Re: Hammerfall multiface I and XP 32 sp3

Hi,

The release pedal is a midi pedal connected to the sustain input of a midi keyboard (axiom 61). 

The midi keyboard is plugged into the iConnectmidi4+ device (a usb midi interface)

pedal > jack > axiom61 > usb > iCM4+ > usb > PC

Both keyboard and iCM4+ are midi class compliant (no 3rd party drivers installed)

Im using it with a kontakt 5 piano library. (Fazioli Grand Imperfectsamples)


Pedal use causing clicks has always been a problem - it was the same using the fast track pro so im pretty sure its not the audio cards fault now. It did not change when I changed HD to SSD either.  Loading the piano was much faster and I could use less RAM but the pedal still was an issue.

I had not considered the pedal as a possible cause, it seems to do such a simple thing - send a single control message CC64 on/off. The data it sends looks fine in any midi monitor.

Im guessing its either Cubase or Kontakt or the Library then.

It always seems to happen after the pedal is held and then released.
Holding the pedal down and adding notes I see the Cubase asio meter gradually rising. Immediatley when releasing the pedal I see the Cubase asio meter suddenly drop down but this is followed instantly with a quick spike into the red which accompanies the click.

It will "nearly" always do this if there are many notes being sustained.
It will sometimes do this if there are only 5-6 notes being sustained.

Again, I really appreciate your advice. Trying to identify where problems on these multi hw/sw device setups come from is a nightmare. Any single part or component could potentially be responsible - and that the component is likley to be me only makes it harder.

On a sidenote - I don't suppose RME have ever made a Midiclock generator?

7 Reply by MC

  • MC
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Re: Hammerfall multiface I and XP 32 sp3

The MIDI pedal seems not to be the problem, just the change that it commands in your DAW. Now that you have pinned down the problem and can easily reproduce it it might be time to visit the Steinberg forums. Someone might know how to prevent this peak by a changed setting in Cubase.

Regards
Matthias Carstens
RME

MC's Website