• Registered: 2007-05-02
  • Posts: 316

Topic: Using ADI-8 Pro + ADI-8 DS

I've been using an ADI-8 Pro for a long time and I recently acquired an ADI-8 DS allowing me to work at 2X rates if I chose to. Most of my work will still be at 44.1 but some projects will benefit from 2X operation. The DS of course becomes my main converter, with my older Pro providing additional I/0 when working at 44/48. Both are run from the ADAT channels of a Digiface. When working at 2X, I won't be using the older converter but I will need all 8 channels of the DS.

So I need to split the Digiface ADAT OUT feeding the older Pro when I want to work at 2X because I would need the SMUX channels for channels 5-8 of the DS. For convenience, the obvious candidate is one of those ADAT splitters mentioned in other threads on this forum, splitting the Pro ADAT connection from the Digiface to feed both the Pro and the AUX channel of the DS.

But then I thought about the Copy Mode on the Pro: couldn't I just connect the ADAT AUX Output from the Pro to the AUX input of the DS and use the Pro's Copy Mode to send channels 5-8 to the DS when I want to use the DS in 2X mode? The obvious question is whether the lines will be in sync when SMUX reconstitutes the 2X signal in the DS.

Thanks for any advice and clarification.

PC1 = HDSPe PCIe: DF-ADI-8 DS / HDSPe PCIe: MF2
MBP = HDSPe Expresscard: MF1

2 Reply by MC

  • MC
  • MC
  • Administrator
  • Offline
  • From: Germany/Thailand
  • Registered: 2007-04-06
  • Posts: 25,565

Re: Using ADI-8 Pro + ADI-8 DS

They won't be in sync - doesn't work.

Regards
Matthias Carstens
RME

MC's Website

3 Reply by undertone (edited by undertone 2014-07-01 21:06:46)

  • Registered: 2007-05-02
  • Posts: 316

Re: Using ADI-8 Pro + ADI-8 DS

MC wrote:

They won't be in sync - doesn't work.

Thanks. But the splitter idea will work? Other posts here suggest it will, particularly in unbuffered splitters that run TOTX's from TORXs directly.

PC1 = HDSPe PCIe: DF-ADI-8 DS / HDSPe PCIe: MF2
MBP = HDSPe Expresscard: MF1
  • From: Houston, TX
  • Registered: 2007-05-11
  • Posts: 1,191

Re: Using ADI-8 Pro + ADI-8 DS

Why not just leave the DS hard patched to the Digiface ADAT 1/2, and then dedicate the Digiface's ADAT 3 for the ADI-8Pro I/O?  Since you won't be using Digiface channels 9-16 when in DS mode, not using 9-16 in single speed mode might make sense (ADI-8Pro is always 17-24, only available in single speed mode).  You might even be able to hide channels 9-16 in TM on the Digiface with the more recent drivers (can't say for sure).

cool

MADIface-XT+ARC / 3x HDSP MADI / ADI648
2x SSL Alphalink MADI AX
2x Multiface / 2x Digiface /2x ADI8

5 Reply by undertone (edited by undertone 2014-07-03 05:04:44)

  • Registered: 2007-05-02
  • Posts: 316

Re: Using ADI-8 Pro + ADI-8 DS

Randyman... wrote:

Why not just leave the DS hard patched to the Digiface ADAT 1/2, and then dedicate the Digiface's ADAT 3 for the ADI-8Pro I/O?

Because my MBP is connected to ADAT 3 of the Digiface. I need 3 lines for 3 devices at 44/48. 

Not sure the channel hiding actually exists... does it?

PC1 = HDSPe PCIe: DF-ADI-8 DS / HDSPe PCIe: MF2
MBP = HDSPe Expresscard: MF1
  • From: Houston, TX
  • Registered: 2007-05-11
  • Posts: 1,191

Re: Using ADI-8 Pro + ADI-8 DS

undertone wrote:
Randyman... wrote:

Why not just leave the DS hard patched to the Digiface ADAT 1/2, and then dedicate the Digiface's ADAT 3 for the ADI-8Pro I/O?

Because my MBP is connected to ADAT 3 of the Digiface. I need 3 lines for 3 devices at 44/48.

Ah - You are feeding your MF ADAT on your MBP to the Digiface ADAT3.  This was not clarified earlier.

If you can "get by" with a Coax SPDIF form the MBP's MF to the Digiface Coax SPDIF, that would be one option (and the MPB could even run @ 96K and still feed 2 channels of I/O to the Digiface).  I now assume your Coax SPDIF is also being used for something else - so probably no dice...

You might also be able to compromise (don't know your exact workflows or bussing requirements), but you could feed to ADI8-Pro AD's to the MF on the MBP, and then use TM to re-buss that to the Digiface.  You could use 4 DAW channels on your MBP plus 4 channels from the ADI-8's AD's, then off to the Digiface.  Or vice-versa - If you need DAC channels on the ADI8-Pro, you might be able to concoct a routing scheme possibly using the Copy Mode (use the Copy Mode to pass the DF's ADAT Out into the MBP's MF Input via the ADI-8Pro / Disable Copy Mode to use the ADI-8's DAC's from the DF)?  Just typing as I think smile

Toss the COAX SPDIF in there too, and it might open up just enough I/O between the two systems to make it doable?

Kind of hard to suggest something w/o knowing exactly how many channels you need in which directions at any given time between all of the connected devices - but something is likely doable with some compromise.

undertone wrote:

Not sure the channel hiding actually exists... does it?

Correct you are (just checked).  I thought I recalled this was going to be added, but I think I confused "Channel Hiding" with the addition of the WDM channel count restrictions (on Windows) that were recently added to the DF and more recently to the MF with Windows driver 3.42.

Best luck in your quest!  Strangely, I love sorting out stuff like this as my setup is always a compromise of some sort cool

MADIface-XT+ARC / 3x HDSP MADI / ADI648
2x SSL Alphalink MADI AX
2x Multiface / 2x Digiface /2x ADI8

7 Reply by undertone (edited by undertone 2014-07-03 22:53:47)

  • Registered: 2007-05-02
  • Posts: 316

Re: Using ADI-8 Pro + ADI-8 DS

Randyman... wrote:

Best luck in your quest!  Strangely, I love sorting out stuff like this as my setup is always a compromise of some sort cool

Thanks for all the suggestions. There are a lot of possibilities, and it can be a creative puzzle to work out, but I'm looking for the easiest and simplest solution that won't require a lot of channel shuffling in TM. I've done complex routings in the past, but they're not practical in day to day, especially if you add the 1 to 2X TM channel expansion/contraction. My OP was in fact the end result of some thinking... wink 

Fundamentally, ADAT 2X mode is messy compared with the simplicity of modern USB/Firewire interfaces where one channel can do any sampling rate and there's no "dramatic" channel shifting in TM when requiring high sample rates. I sure am looking forward to the day I can junk all this and budget for more recent I/O. But in the meantime...

Actually I do have an additional question for MC: if I use a splitter on the second ADAT line going to the DS, should I use one on the first line even if not splitting just to make sure the two ADAT lines are perfectly in sync? Or are these splitters fast enough for this not to be necessary?

PC1 = HDSPe PCIe: DF-ADI-8 DS / HDSPe PCIe: MF2
MBP = HDSPe Expresscard: MF1

8 Reply by niceboy (edited by niceboy 2014-07-04 13:05:34)

  • From: Sweden
  • Registered: 2011-06-02
  • Posts: 45

Re: Using ADI-8 Pro + ADI-8 DS

We have used ADI 648 since 2010 now using all ADAT , and having other ADAT interfaces ,
from M - Audio and Sonic Core using Mutec sync amplifier for paralell coaxial sync.
That is our way ADI 648 is fantastic.
We will soon buy an expansion-card for our RME HDSPe MADI-card.
We think that is the best way.
PS  I am an ADAT to MADI artist
Bear

Bear Of Moon
  • Registered: 2007-05-02
  • Posts: 316

Re: Using ADI-8 Pro + ADI-8 DS

niceboy wrote:

PS  I am an ADAT to MADI artist

Thanks for sharing, Bear. The ADI-648 sure is a useful link for these technologies, but it's worth as much as all my RME gear; with a large budget, more possibilities open up. I'm still working on the large budget... wink

But tell me: as you're moving more into MADI, do you see yourself moving away from ADAT completely any time soon?

PC1 = HDSPe PCIe: DF-ADI-8 DS / HDSPe PCIe: MF2
MBP = HDSPe Expresscard: MF1
  • From: Houston, TX
  • Registered: 2007-05-11
  • Posts: 1,191

Re: Using ADI-8 Pro + ADI-8 DS

(I'm not Bear - but) I also use an ADI-648 (MADI-to-ADAT converter) in my MADI setup.  This will not avoid ADAT S/MUX headaches @ 96K (as I'm sure you know).

MADI is fantastic, but has limitations of it's own - including cost and inability to easily pluck a few channels out for different pieces of gear (thus the ADI-648 in my setup which provides 8 ADAT ins and 8 ADAT Outs).

If ALL of your gear is MADI capable, then MADI Rings are generally the way to go - but my pair of SSL Alphalinks don't handle MADI Rings unless you also use the SSL Mixpander Card with them (which is kind of silly IMO).  So the ADI-648 lets me patch both of the Alphalinks into MADI - and remain sample accurate between the two converters.  This leaves two open ADAT I/O's on the 648 which connect to a Digiface on my V-Drum VSTi PC.  The second MADI port on my MF-XT goes to another slave VSTi box with a HDSPe-MADI card I use for synths and Guitar Sims (feeds a tube guitar amp setup).

MADI is steadily gaining traction, and is seen on more and more large format consoles and even being integrated into larger broadcast facilities.  For my I/O needs, I don't see any better options.  Plus I got a great deal on a used ADI-648, but the NIB MADIface-XT set me back a few pennies wink

cool

MADIface-XT+ARC / 3x HDSP MADI / ADI648
2x SSL Alphalink MADI AX
2x Multiface / 2x Digiface /2x ADI8