Topic: Loopback

Hello
(my english is not good)
I need help about loopback and effects recording by totalmix
Actually i use Ableton
One example
i open three audio track (1,2,3) in ableton where i record a guitar
Listening tracks 1,2,3 i see signal on total mix 1/2 channel
Then i open another track (di1) and i choose external input 1/2 and output master
For track 1,2,3 i choose master output
Now i activate reverb on total mix and fx return in 1/2 hardware outputs and fx send in 1/2 software playback
In hardware outputs 1/2 i activate also loopback
It run
But new registration with effect has less volume and low definition
I don't know if it is for second conversion adda or wrong setting
Another problem: if i try to increase gain in recording by totalmix 1/2 hardware outputs fader i get larsen effect
Sure i make any setting mistake.
If someone could show me the way...
Totalmix effects are good in my opinion. But if i have to sacrifice volume and sound definition they are useless
Two images from a Total mix and ableton tracks snapshot during reproduction
It is clear how much track di1 volume is lower than track 1,2,3 volumes. And track di1 input gets sound from tracks 1,2,3 after loopback as i already explained

http://i60.tinypic.com/14xnqx0.png

http://i58.tinypic.com/2upv0g4.png

Re: Loopback

anybody?

Re: Loopback

Your fader is down on the AN 1/2 output, this is why the signal is low.

Regards,
Jeff Petersen
Synthax Inc.

4 (edited by Randyman... 2014-07-15 20:38:40)

Re: Loopback

Oops - Beat to the punch by Jeff!  That's what I get for opening a bunch of threads in tabs and walking away for :30!

Original Post: Not sure I follow everything you ask, but your Hardware Output AN 1/2 fader is down pretty low - and the OUTPUT from that fader is what gets "Looped back" to the input (note how TM's Output AN 1/2 level matches the levels you see recorded in Ableton's mic2 & mic3 channels).

Crank the Output AN 1/2 fader to unity, and you should have a loopback input level close to what you are sending out...

cool

MADIface-XT+ARC / 3x HDSP MADI / ADI648
2x SSL Alphalink MADI AX
2x Multiface / 2x Digiface /2x ADI8

Re: Loopback

The fader is probably pulled down because this is your main analog outs for monitoring. If so, you should pick a different unused I/O pair to utilize the loopback. For instance, route the playback and effects to SPDIF out, then activate loopback and record SPDIF in.

Regards,
Jeff Petersen
Synthax Inc.

6 (edited by loyuit 2014-07-16 01:21:55)

Re: Loopback

Thanks
It seems solved
I did as Jeff suggests, changing loopback channels....and i've changed 1,2,3 tracks outputs to 5/6 loopback channel
Is it right now...or still something wrong
It seems better anyway



http://i60.tinypic.com/2zjc8x4.png


http://i61.tinypic.com/2imat7l.png


ps
Another little off topic curiosity
In your opinion how much could a dedicated dsp be influential for plugins performance comparing with native plugs processed by generic computer cpu?

7 (edited by ramses 2014-07-16 07:52:45)

Re: Loopback

Regarding your last question.

To what product do you refer when talking about a "dedicated DSP" ? Do you mean the DSP on UCX or is this a more generic question in regards to UAD alike products vs native plugins ?

As I understood it, but I might be wrong, the DSP on totalmix is dedicated for everything that you do with totalmix (headphone mixes, etc etc). Totalmix sends the audio signals from its inputs unprocessed to your DAW. So I think there is no direct relationship between the DSP effects of Totalmix/UCX to whats going on on the DAW.

But there are products like UAD, which have DSPs on board (i.e. on a PCIe card), where the audio processing in your DAW is offloaded from the CPU. These Effects you can load on your DAW to shape the sound.

Some people still like their UAD effects but many people go for native effects as CPU power is increasing nowadays and then you are independend from the additional hardware which is also quite expensive.

The effect section in Totalmix is not there to compete with high quality native VST effects or UAD. They are useable, give you an add on value for the product and enable you to use effects without much latency directly for headphone mixes etc.

Thats good for standalone mode and also good, as its easier to add a reverb to a singer, than having to set this up in the DAW. If you implement Reverb by using DAW, then the signal needs to travel through the Firewire/USB, processing of the DAW, travel back through the Firewire/USB ... so its easier and straight forward to have it on the device.

But for audio processing (mixing / mastering) in a DAW you better use the VSTs that come either with your DAW or separately bought DAWs. If you want you can use UAD products to offload effect processing from the CPU. Its a matter of taste if you like the UADs more or native effects.

BR Ramses - UFX III, 12Mic, XTC, ADI-2 Pro FS R BE, RayDAT, X10SRi-F, E5-1680v4, Win10Pro22H2, Cub14

8 (edited by loyuit 2014-07-16 10:03:31)

Re: Loopback

Hello Ramses
Not Uad,Tc,Rme but i refer to generic dsp dedicated vs computer cpu
It would be possible that dedicated chips built for specific plugs work better than computer cpu with native plugins
I'm not speaking about overload but only "elaboration performance"
I've tried many native plugs but overall in mix i hear them a little muddy.
I'm thinking to take a outboard dsp (never tested uad,tc etc) or use ucx effects. It would be handy.Or take hardware outboard but in this case i should use converters many times in mixing or mastering and i don't know if it could influence audio signal quality.
ps as i read, Ucx total mix effects have a second dedicated dsp
"The second dedicated DSP only renders effects, and therefore always has sufficient resources" from rme site
I hope rme totalmix effects are good enough for professional and quality works. I'm not pretending non plus ultra effects but a good product at least,comparable with good native plugins (with dedicated dsp processing in addition).

9 (edited by ramses 2014-07-16 11:21:27)

Re: Loopback

In regards to plugin vs native I would recommend asking in a pure musician forum like gearsluts. Such questions pop up regulary. From following other forums I have the perception, that buying native plugins in good quality does not result in any quality degradation and gives you more flexibility. You only need to choose the proper one which you like ;-) The Lexicon (PCM!) Reverbs are still very nice and have the sound of the 80's. Exponential Audio is also worth a look.

Tip: wait for discounts otherwise I regard these products as too expensive and it needs some time until you have the toolchain that fits your personal demand and taste.

If you are worried about performance you are maybe better off in investing into a good equipped audio workstation with maybe up to 2 CPUs (when you decide to take a server mainboard). Then you have invested the money into performance that supports you with every aspect of "working with the computer". Especially when thinking about downmixes with many tracks and VSTs.

In regards to RMEs built in FX. What you expect .. zillions of high quality FX ? At what price ? For what purpose ?
By design these FXs cant be used in a DAW as a VST. So most use cases are i.e. headphone mixes.
If you expect complex effect algorithms and a quality like i.e. Lexicon, well .. everything has its price ..
Would you spend the $$$ more for the FX on an RME ?

Its surely better RME keeps the good quaility in their key competence areas and gives Reverbs as add-on, so that the price of the units do not get much higher, as FX / VSTs is often also a matter of taste, so even if RME would choose FX with more "quality", people would still buy additional VSTs to get different "flavours" of Reverb, Delay, etc ...

So I think its maybe better to make the product not too expensive by pimping up the FXs ...

Of course .. if RME sees a possibility to make effects a little better without requiring "$$$ bucks more" .. wonderful .. but quality has usually its price ...

I hope my $0.02 on this topic helped you a bit to come to an own view/decision.

BR Ramses - UFX III, 12Mic, XTC, ADI-2 Pro FS R BE, RayDAT, X10SRi-F, E5-1680v4, Win10Pro22H2, Cub14

10 (edited by loyuit 2014-07-16 19:55:19)

Re: Loopback

thank you very much Ramses
Your advices and your point of view are
precious.
About the price paid for ucx totalmix
it is 200-300 euro more or less. Are there other differences as compared with uc?
Perhaps rme be able to offer good effects at this price.
For two reasons :totalmix is included and exclusive for rme
interface.Not sold separately.This could offer a lower
or right price.Second reason: i'd like to believe a company that produces only professional and high quality audio hardware,keep this standard also in hardware optionals like
totalmix.
In addition rme effects are simple.They don't emulate famous hardware
as other plugins developers do.(costs surplus?)
Anyway i don't know
Many Native or dsp/uad plugs are very expensive.
They are flexible,practical but at similar price you can afford medium-high level
hardware.I think in that case i'd go with hardware.
Expecially if i was sure multiple conversions adda do not influence
sound quality
We are OT
Thank you Randyman,Ramses and Jeff
ciao