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RME User Forum → TotalMix FX → Total mix FX in a live setting
Getting to grips with a setup for live use. If I want to use eq and dynamics on a mic on an input in total mix is there any way I can send the input signal to an output connected to a monitor speaker without the eq and dynamics but still have the eq and dynamics on the separate outputs to the FOH speakers?
Thinking maybe I should just split the signal before the hardware inputs and use two separate channels - one for FOH - one for monitor.
Can anybody help me with this?
You can route the dry signal to both outputs on the bottom row, and add effects on the appropriate output channel rather than the input.
You can route the dry signal to both outputs on the bottom row, and add effects on the appropriate output channel rather than the input.
Of course in this case all input signals routed to that output will have the same eq and dynamics settings.
Depending on your interface (you didn't mention which RME interface you use) and free I/O, you could also use a physical loopback cable to duplicate the inputs. For example a single adat cable from adat out to adat in for duplicating up to 4 mono signals.
1. Connect a cable from adat output to adat in (or use any other available I/O)
2. Send the dry mono input signal to two different mono adat outputs (submixes)
3. Use the two adat inputs separately, one for your monitor submix, and the other for FOH submix, and add effects to only the input you route to your FOH submix.
Jeff, thanks. I had considered that but as bsfreq suggests I don't want the same rev/dyn on the output for other instruments in main mix to FOH. bsfreq - that is extremely handy - a quick read of that hurt my brain but I will explore that option. I have an original UFX so plenty of i/o and I am not using the adat at the moment so very handy indeed and should be the answer to my dilemma. My other option is to use an analogue mic splitter and feed two duplicate inputs to separate outputs - but that is more gear and weight - a single optical cable sound much more interesting!
I currently do not have access to TMFX, so this is from memory.
I think this is a use case for using the loopback functionality.
Let's assume you have an UFX/* alike device.
Your requirement is to have ie the 4 Mic inputs one time without and one time with effects
and you do not require ADAT1 i/o.
1. Do not use effects on Mic9-12.
2. Route Mic IN 9-12 to ADAT9-12 OUT
Not 100% sure about numbering of ADAT channels.
3. Enable loopback on ADAT 9-12 OUT, by this you have the signal on ADAT 9-12 IN.
4. Enable effects on ADAT 9-12 IN
5. Route Mic 9-12 IN without effects to monitor speaker
6. Route ADAT 9-12 IN with effects to the output for FOH speaker with effects (EQ/dynamics)
By using loopback functionality of TM FX you do not require a separate cable.
This is a good example which shows not to buy an interface too small. It's always good to have some unused i/o ports for loopback purposes.
I also use this feature when overdubbing guitar to an either existing song or track.
By loopback recording I am EQ'Ing the 2 Mics esp for my phones output.
ramses: this is why I love the internet sometimes, people can be so helpful. I fully understand this now and it will really help me achieve what I want to do and save me carting a mixer around.
Hope that it works well for you this way.
Please report back.
Jeff wrote:You can route the dry signal to both outputs on the bottom row, and add effects on the appropriate output channel rather than the input.
Of course in this case all input signals routed to that output will have the same eq and dynamics settings.
Depending on your interface (you didn't mention which RME interface you use) and free I/O, you could also use a physical loopback cable to duplicate the inputs. For example a single adat cable from adat out to adat in for duplicating up to 4 mono signals.
1. Connect a cable from adat output to adat in (or use any other available I/O)
2. Send the dry mono input signal to two different mono adat outputs (submixes)
3. Use the two adat inputs separately, one for your monitor submix, and the other for FOH submix, and add effects to only the input you route to your FOH submix.
1st it appeared to me that in step 2 you simply "waste" more ADAT ports than required compared to my proposed solution using loopback.
Then I remembered that using loopback requires a little bit of processing time.
I do not know/remember, how much additional time loopback processing in TM FX takes and whether the time offset between monitor and FOH would have an impact for your life scenario...
BUT you could modify my proposed loopback solution, so that monitor and FOH both would use loopback and would have by this the same time base without offset. This would still save you the ADAT cable if purchase would take too long:
1- Simply route/double each Mic input to two ADAT OUT ports, ie
Mic 9-12 IN to ADAT 9-12 OUT (monitor)
Mic 9-12 IN to ADAT 13-16 OUT (FOH)
2- Enable loopback on ADAT OUT 9-16
3- Enable effects only for FOH on ports ADAT 13-16 IN
4- Route ADAT 9-12 to monitor HW Output
5- Route ADAT 13-16 to FOH HW Output
Questions to RME, would be very kind if you could answer:
1. Does the solution of using an external ADAT patch cable save some time compared to the use of the internal loopback function of TM FX and how much ?
2. To be able to find the best solution: how much time do these different kind of routings take ?
To route audio from analog HW input
- directly to analog HW output
- to digital HW output - TOSLINK CABLE - digital HW input - analog HW output
- to digital HW output - Loopback - Digital HW input - Analog HW output
3. Assumed bigger interfaces like UFX+ require bigger FPGA. Do those bigger FPGA have also a higher clock rate, so that any time offset introduced by internal loopback function would be smaller because of the higher processing speed ?
Many thanks upfront for giving more insight to be able to find the best solution in terms of "least time offset", etc and whether the bigger interfaces eventually bring even more benefits in terms of maybe less internal processing time for loopback which might also be a selling point like ie more spare ports for loopback processing.
To my knowledge, the loopback feature of TMFX is zero latency.
However, the loopback on TMFX does not reroute submix outputs back to TMFX inputs. Instead it reroutes the outputs to corresponding inputs on the driver / daw side. (i.e. if loopback is enabled on adat out 1-2, then daw input adat 1-2 gets the signal from TMFX adat out 1-2 instead of the physical adat in 1-2 of the interface.
Physical input of adat in 1-2 is still fed to TMFX’s adat 1-2 input.
This means that in order to achieve what oktorockto is after here, he would have to use daw to reroute the channels back to TMFX. Also, software input channels on TMFX do not have eq/ dynamics processing.
Adat i/o loop with cable would be easiest here, although it does add a few samples of latency. Shouldn’t be a problem in live use, and digital to digital connection adds no extra a/d and d/a conversions.
Hmmmm .... If I remember my current setup right (long ago that I set it up newly) then it's possible to route an input signal to another HW output like an unused MADI output channel, then use TMFX's loopback function and then to route the corresponding MADI Input "EQ'd" to another HW output like phones.
But I could be wrong ofc ...
I need to check this later, maybe this weekend.
a button on each channel of the bottom row to be able to bypass any EQ+D applied from the top row would be a good feature to add..
I tried the ADAT physical loopback cable suggestion and it works absolutely fine. I don't want to carry a pc and DAW with me so this is the best option. Thank you so much for all your inputs (pun intended).
Nice :-) Did you try my proposal ? I didn't have time to test, sorry.
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