• Registered: 2019-09-26
  • Posts: 5

Topic: Latency with simple audio pass-through

I'm trying to achieve low-latency audio, coming in from a microphone, into the analog input of a Babyface, then out of the Babyface into my speakers.

I figured this would just work out-of-the-box, but there's an obnoxious amount of latency, a few hundred ms.

If I hit the "Cue" button on the track, which as I understand directs the track to the main out, the latency disappears - perfect.  However, now all other audio from e.g. youtube or an mp3 player from the computer is silenced.

I feel like I'm being dumb about this, but there must be a way that I can both:
1. get low latency from mic input -> speakers
2. allow windows to be playing tracks in the background through any audio app

Any help or guidance would be much appreciated!

  • Jeff
  • Jeff
  • Moderator
  • Offline
  • From: USA
  • Registered: 2007-05-21
  • Posts: 4,619

Re: Latency with simple audio pass-through

Yes, you are missing the most important part of routing the input signal (top row) to the output (bottom row). Once you have routing correct you'll have the latency-free input routed along with the computer playback at the same time.

Video tutorials should help:
https://www.rme-usa.com/totalmix-fx.html

Regards,
Jeff Petersen
Synthax Inc.

Jeff's Website

  • ramses
  • DAW Mastermind
  • Offline
  • From: UTC+1
  • Registered: 2012-10-14
  • Posts: 12,060

Re: Latency with simple audio pass-through

TotalMix routing in short:

Use the easier "Mixer View" in TM FX, "Matrix View" is for getting an overview or for experts who are used to use it.

Click to an HW Output (bottom row) and create the desired Submix for this output by raising the faders of
- HW Inputs (top row) - the actual input signal at the recording interface
- SW Playback Channels (middle row) - audio from computer, either from OS or Application (ASIO, WDM devices)

Things to note:
- Mute of input channels is only active for the submix that you create for HW outputs in TM FX.
- The audio inputs of the recording interface are always passed through to the application, i.e. to DAW which has loaded the ASIO driver.

If you want, I wrote a TM FX primer for 1st time setup, which contains some additional useful tips.
Available in English and German:
https://www.tonstudio-forum.de/blog/ind … rnal-equi/

I collected RME video tutorial URLs. It contains everything, the new ones mentioned from Jeff.
But also the elder ones have its beauty. And I also found some in french:
https://www.tonstudio-forum.de/blog/ind … al-Videos/

If you want to get some inspirations of using your BBF Pro, I also put together a video collection
from RME for their devices, which introduce the devices and show interesting use cases,
which can also be inspiring:
https://www.tonstudio-forum.de/blog/ind … Videos-EN/

BR Ramses - UFX III, 12Mic, XTC, ADI-2 Pro FS R BE, RayDAT, X10SRi-F, E5-1680v4, Win10Pro22H2, Cub13
  • Registered: 2019-09-26
  • Posts: 5

Re: Latency with simple audio pass-through

Thanks so much for your responses.  I'm reading through these articles and learning a bunch of shit, but I still haven't solved my problem.  So let me rephrase:

N00b looking for a karaoke setup. 

It sounds like Jeff is saying I have my routing incorrect for this approach, but I still don't understand why.

ramses linking me to a hundred awesome tutorials.

Help a brother out guys.  How can I spit some vox on top of a Guitar Pro track I've got laid out?  Use of small words would help this n00b, hah

5 Reply by MC

  • MC
  • MC
  • Administrator
  • Offline
  • From: Germany/Thailand
  • Registered: 2007-04-06
  • Posts: 24,837

Re: Latency with simple audio pass-through

Ramses clearly explained the only thing you need to know:

Use the easier "Mixer View" in TM FX, "Matrix View" is for getting an overview or for experts who are used to use it.

Click to an HW Output (bottom row) and create the desired Submix for this output by raising the faders of
- HW Inputs (top row) - the actual input signal at the recording interface
- SW Playback Channels (middle row) - audio from computer, either from OS or Application (ASIO, WDM devices)

Regards
Matthias Carstens
RME

MC's Website

  • Registered: 2019-09-26
  • Posts: 5

Re: Latency with simple audio pass-through

I should probably specify I'm using Windows 10 - clicking on any Hardware Output does not set focus to said output.  All these tutorials I'm looking at are for Mac, so maybe the software is significantly different?  Additionally, I do not even have a row for SW Playback Channels.

Latest drivers and firmware installed.  I'm also now noticing that I am only getting audio into TotalMix from the "Default Device" defined in Windows Audio Playback Settings.  So I can get output from either my Speakers (AN 1/2) OR my headphones (AN 3/4), but not both.  Total Reset doesn't help.  TotalMix version is 1.61.

If I can figure out how to get audio sent to both AN 1/2 and AN 3/4 (apparently sometimes also called PH 3/4) I'd have a better handle on what's going on here.  I've tried pretty much every permutation of assignments for the Main Out and Phones in Control Room without success.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/b4aj0lra86y7e … s.PNG?dl=0

7 Reply by MC

  • MC
  • MC
  • Administrator
  • Offline
  • From: Germany/Thailand
  • Registered: 2007-04-06
  • Posts: 24,837

Re: Latency with simple audio pass-through

arcturus888 wrote:

I should probably specify I'm using Windows 10 - clicking on any Hardware Output does not set focus to said output.

Yep, unfortunately the above quote was incomplete. You need to select Submix View. This is from the manual:

Usage in mode Submix View (Default)
   
Using TotalMix FX is really easy. Thanks to the Submix View (default) all you have to do is click on the Hardware Output channel in the third row where the audio signal is supposed to show up. This channel turns brighter, means it is selected as current submix. Now move the faders up from all sources – these are the input and playback channels, in the first and second row. That’s it. The input (monitoring) and playback (DAW software) audio signals are now available at that very output, which can be verified immediately from the level meters reacting accordingly.
   
The following chapters explain step by step all functions of the user interface.

Now if Submix View is not active make it active in the right blue upper panel.

Regards
Matthias Carstens
RME

MC's Website

  • Registered: 2019-09-26
  • Posts: 5

Re: Latency with simple audio pass-through

Page 26 of the manual does indeed show the ROUTING MODE section displayed in the blue box.  However if you take a look at the screenshot I included in the previous post, my version of TotalMix only shows the LEVEL METERS and SHOW sections in the blue box.

Possibly because I'm using a Babyface?  I note that in other samples I've looked at, the interfaces selected at the ultimate top-right are Fireface UC and Fireface UFX.

9 Reply by MC

  • MC
  • MC
  • Administrator
  • Offline
  • From: Germany/Thailand
  • Registered: 2007-04-06
  • Posts: 24,837

Re: Latency with simple audio pass-through

You are in DAW mode where no routing is supported.

DAW Mode
Users that work exclusively with their DAW software, and don’t want to use TotalMix FX for
additional routing tasks, need a way to be sure that TotalMix FX currently doesn’t change the
DAW’s routing. While Reset Mix can do so, those users would be better served with a very simple
surface that offers the interface’s hardware controls (gain, phantom control, instrument…),
but guarantees a straight 1:1 routing for all playback channels, and has no hardware monitoring
of the input channels (which is then done by the DAW software).

For such cases TotalMix FX includes an alternative operating mode. It can be booted into the
so called DAW mode. This simplified interface is for anyone performing all monitoring and routing
within the DAW. The DAW mode restarts TM FX into a light version with just two rows, no
playback row, and no mixing faders in the input row. Routing is 1:1 only. Just the hardware controls
(if existing) and hardware output levels are available.

To change the current mode go to the menu, Options, and click on Operational Mode. Choices
are Full Mode (default, mixer active, all routing options available), and Digital Audio Workstation
Mode (straight playback routing, no input mix).

Several useful, advanced features are still available in TotalMix FX in DAW mode:

Regards
Matthias Carstens
RME

MC's Website

  • Registered: 2019-09-26
  • Posts: 5

Re: Latency with simple audio pass-through

Oh man, probably the one option I didn't tinker with.  Full Mode makes a huge difference, got the headphone and speaker mix sounding good.

Also the latency is far, far better.  I'd say ~15ms, but it's still noticeable especially if it's a quicker vocal line.  Any pro-tips on getting that lower?  I'm going straight into the Babyface with a short mic cable, coming out the headphones.  It doesn't seem buffer size in the Fireface USB Settings has any effect here.

Thanks again for the help, this has been educational.

  • ramses
  • DAW Mastermind
  • Offline
  • From: UTC+1
  • Registered: 2012-10-14
  • Posts: 12,060

Re: Latency with simple audio pass-through

I didnt read the full thread, but in terms of lesser RTL (round trip latency) between recording interface and PC
- smaller ASIO buffer size
- higher sample rate

BR Ramses - UFX III, 12Mic, XTC, ADI-2 Pro FS R BE, RayDAT, X10SRi-F, E5-1680v4, Win10Pro22H2, Cub13