Topic: Adjusting loudness corner frequency and Q?

I really like the loudness function on the ADI, but who can get too much of a good thing.

When I look at the ISO equal loudness graphs and derive the difference between say 60 and 80 phons I end up with something like a 10 dB difference between equal loudness at 20 Hz  and falling smoothly to zero at around 800 Hz. The difference at higher frequencies are much smaller than at low frequencies. 

The default setting for the ADI loudness function is set to a corner frequency at 85 Hz and a Q of 0,9 it is stated in the manual, as I can see it this only addresses parts of the loudness function. E.g if set to a 10 dB boost it will fit the ISO curves at 20 Hz and be 2 dB of at 70 Hz and around 4 dB off at 200 Hz.

Is there any way of adjusting the Q and corner frequency for the loudness function?

Is here anybody who have experimented with this?

2 (edited by KaiS 2020-10-11 14:27:13)

Re: Adjusting loudness corner frequency and Q?

Loudness works with predetermined crossover frequencies and Q-factors.

The variable values you mention are from the bass and treble control, a different function, without connection to Loudness.


To setup Loudness function:

•  If necessary, set Bass- and Treble control and the Equalizer until the sound is to your liking.
• Determine your usual normal listening level's volume setting.
• Set the Loudness' "Low Vol Ref" 20-25dB below this level.
• Now adjust Loudness' Bass and Treble Gain and fine-tune the "Low Vol Ref", until louder and quieter Vol. settings sound about equal in the Bass/Mid/Treble- balance.


With these settings the Loudness function is out of the way with normal listening levels and chimes in when you need it, compensating apparent loss of bass and treble when listening at lower levels.

Re: Adjusting loudness corner frequency and Q?

Indeed!   To agree with KaiS, the optimal setting for Dynamic Loudness is 20db-ish beneath your Maximum Vol setting.   Tweaking Freq or Q factor is not advised.

Google:  "Fletcher Munson Loudness Contours"  to better understand the purpose of "Dynamic Loudness" as it relates to Human Hearing. 

Curt

Vintage 2018 ADI-2 DAC. "Classic AKM4490 Edition"
Cables:  Red, and White Ones.
Speakers:  Yes

Re: Adjusting loudness corner frequency and Q?

Curt962 wrote:

Indeed!   To agree with KaiS, the optimal setting for Dynamic Loudness is 20db-ish beneath your Maximum Vol setting.   Tweaking Freq or Q factor is not advised.

Google:  "Fletcher Munson Loudness Contours"  to better understand the purpose of "Dynamic Loudness" as it relates to Human Hearing. 

Curt

To disagree with Curt (that's the first time!!), for me the Low Vol Ref is 20 dB under the normal listening volume, not the maximum volume setting...

ADI-2 DAC (with stock PSU) - Neumann KH 310 A monitors - Cheap USB and XLR cables

5 (edited by Curt962 2020-10-13 12:43:47)

Re: Adjusting loudness corner frequency and Q?

Ooops!  A Faux Pas on my part. smile

20db beneath your NORMAL listening level is indeed more accurately stated.

There's Wiggle Room here.   Rather than tweak other parameters, a bit of experimentation with Low Vol Ref Level (I/0>Settings>Loudness>Low Vol Ref) can optimize Dynamic Loudness for the individual listener very nicely.

Enjoy!

Curt

Vintage 2018 ADI-2 DAC. "Classic AKM4490 Edition"
Cables:  Red, and White Ones.
Speakers:  Yes

Re: Adjusting loudness corner frequency and Q?

Thanks for the input. As I already like the loudness function it is not a big loss that it is not adjustable and will take your word for it that it is not worth the effort to dig into.

I have however investigated the purpose of the loudness function, which is the reason for my question. The ISO 226:2003 provides nice equal loudness curves, very similar to fletcher-munson. Correcting for loudness would then be the difference between the the equal loudness curves. My finding was that the curves suggest rather little adjustment above 500 Hz as the curves are largely parallel. Below 500 Hz this seems not to be the case and I wondered how much was to be gained compensating in the 100-500 Hz range as well as below 100 Hz.

7 (edited by KaiS 2020-10-14 13:52:01)

Re: Adjusting loudness corner frequency and Q?

All those "Equal Loudness Curves", be it Fletcher-Munson, ISO### or the like are approximations and averages over a lot of people.
Fletcher-Munson was changed several times BTW - did your hearing change then smile ?

Your personal curves depend on a lot of factors, e.g. age, gender and health of hearing, to name some.


Following my simple "How To" above, to individualize the setting, will result in what the Loudness function is meant to do:

Giving you the least amount of change in tonal balance possible over a practical sense- and useful level range.

I by myself did it this way and it works.

Theoretical values don't help too much here.