• mkta
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Topic: PLEASE HELP—Basic Point to Point Routing

Hi there!

I'm new here, so sorry if this has been discussed before. I've done a ton of research and I just can't seem to find the right source to figure this out.

I have a simple setup with a Fireface 400 connected to a Mac and recording in Pro Tools. I have a general understanding of TotalMix and I have no desire to use it as anything more than a way to see what channels are being used, and to adjust my monitoring volume. I've been running it in DAW Mode in an effort to make it as simple as possible.

My first issue is that my Main output (Analog Out 1/2) only receives a signal when it is Cue'd. The Phones 1 output (Analog Out 7/8) always receives a signal. It would just be a little more convenient if it didn't have to be Cue'd, but no big deal if that's the case. Out of curiosity, is there a way to Cue multiple tracks?

Now, I've recently jumped into the world of outboard. I'm running a guitar through piece of gear coming in on Analog 5 of the FF400. My second issue is that I'm seeing this input signal in TotalMix on Analog Input 5, but the signal is not being sent to my Main output—only the headphone out when Analog Input 5 is Cue'd.
I also tried to get a signal into Pro Tools with the same setup—I selected Analog 5 as the input on an audio track, expecting it to line up right away, and I'm not getting a signal at all on the meters there.

Eventually, I would like to run a signal back out from Pro Tools through a line out and send it through the outboard gear and Analog 5's input to be monitored and recorded again. I hope that comes naturally from figuring out the input monitoring issue and how to get the signal into Pro Tools.

This may all be a greater routing issue in Pro Tools, but I don't think I've ever touched anything in there. I love my FF400, but I do wish TotalMix was merely a replacement for knobs, so that the ins and outs would line up right away in Pro Tools!

Please help, thank you!

2 Reply by ramses (edited by ramses 2022-02-03 06:14:51)

  • ramses
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Re: PLEASE HELP—Basic Point to Point Routing

I would use TM FX routing capabilities instead of DAW mode. Otherwise you need to route everything through the DAW with the full RTL (round trip latency) over firewire where latency can become quite high depending on buffer settings that you need to prevent audio drops.

TM FX contains a menue where you can implement a routing like in DAW mode by only a few mouse clicks.
You can base on this and perform further changes according to your demand including near-zero latency monitoring directly from a HW input to a HW output without the RTL. E.g. when recording guitar or vocals to a backing track where you want to hear your voice in the headphone mix without any latency.

The rough steps as a small overview how to achieve this:

1. Options -> Operational Mode -> Full Mode
2. TM FX -> Options -> Reset Mix -> Total Reset
3. Ensure that Submix Mode is enabled in TM FX, on the right side (in the light blue area under "Routing Mode")
4. Click to the "Assign" Button in TM FX, right side in the control room and select the proper HW outputs for
     Main Out -> e.g. AN 1/2
     Phones 1 -> e.g. Ph x/y
    By this you move the two HW outputs into the Control room to be able to use control room functions with them.
5. TM FX -> Options -> Reset Mix -> Straight Playback, this is like DAW mode
    Audio from PC (TM FX middle row, "sw playbacks) are being routed to the corresponding HW output (TM FX bottom row), e.g.:
    SW playback AN1/2 -> HW output AN1/2
    SW playback AN3/4 -> HW output AN3/4
    ...

OK so far so nice, DAW mode without entering this "limited" mode.
But more fun and flexibility with TM FX Full mode.

You only need to know few things to be able to operate it. The step by step guide is kind of an "appetizer" for a good 1st time setup on which you can base on.

Basic difference to an analog mixer where you (more or less) only move input fader and thats it, because audio will be send to the monitoring section automatically. Here you need to define the channels for the control room 1st and perform routing on a per output base. Or in other words, in TM FX every HW output is like an AUX send on an analog mixer, if you know what I mean. With the knobs per fader whether you want to have this input on AUX send 1 ..4 or 1..8.
EDIT: Well could you imaging an analog mixer with e.g. 64 or more knobs for AUX send 1..64 ... well would be a lot of knobs.
There are RME interfaces like HDSPe MADI FX with 196 output channels ... 196 knobs ...

Therefore Submix mode in TM FX, the only way to operate this in a very nice way.
In TM FX you can create an individual submix for every HW output (bottom row), easiest in submix mode,
by selecting a particular HW Output and then to move fader of HW inputs and SW playback to create this submix.

As we had such questions already so often and as it is always a lot of typing we created a sticky article in this forum.
Please have a look of this collection of information.
There you will also find a step-by-step guide for a good 1st time setup and excellent RME training videos, which do not waste time with unnecessary bla bla and come quickly to the point:
https://forum.rme-audio.de/viewtopic.php?id=34394

Regarding external HW ...

a) with support of the DAW
Cubase has a possibility to create an external device, you only need to tell which analog outputs and inputs are in use.
Then Cubase sends a "ping" through it to calculate the latency automatically for delay compensation in the DAW when sending audio through it and thats it. I do not know how this is being handled in the sometimes "more conversative" Protools.

b) by routing in TM FX
Send something in the DAW to an HW output which is free. You will see audio appearing in TM FX middle row.
In Submix mode select the HW output and turn the fader of that SW playback up to 0dB.
Now you send audio out to this device.
The external device is plugged to some HW inputs, you should see audio coming in on the HW input.
This you can record in your DAW.

Thats it basically.

I would do the routing for monitoring through monitors and phones and store it to snapshots 1 + 2.
If all is ready
- save workspace to a file on disk for backup purposes and
- save it also to a workspace quick select slot (*)
(*) Then you can restore even multiple workspaces easily by pressing ALT+1, ALT+2, ... ALT-0 (this are 10*8 snapshot settings = 80 different routings at your fingertips). Up to 30 possible.

BR Ramses - UFX III, 12Mic, XTC, ADI-2 Pro FS R BE, RayDAT, X10SRi-F, E5-1680v4, Win10Pro22H2, Cub13
  • mkta
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Re: PLEASE HELP—Basic Point to Point Routing

ramses wrote:

I would use TM FX routing capabilities instead of DAW mode. Otherwise you need to route everything through the DAW with the full RTL (round trip latency) over firewire where latency can become quite high depending on buffer settings that you need to prevent audio drops.

TM FX contains a menue where you can implement a routing like in DAW mode by only a few mouse clicks.
You can base on this and perform further changes according to your demand including near-zero latency monitoring directly from a HW input to a HW output without the RTL. E.g. when recording guitar or vocals to a backing track where you want to hear your voice in the headphone mix without any latency.

The rough steps as a small overview how to achieve this:

1. Options -> Operational Mode -> Full Mode
2. TM FX -> Options -> Reset Mix -> Total Reset
3. Ensure that Submix Mode is enabled in TM FX, on the right side (in the light blue area under "Routing Mode")
4. Click to the "Assign" Button in TM FX, right side in the control room and select the proper HW outputs for
     Main Out -> e.g. AN 1/2
     Phones 1 -> e.g. Ph x/y
    By this you move the two HW outputs into the Control room to be able to use control room functions with them.
5. TM FX -> Options -> Reset Mix -> Straight Playback, this is like DAW mode
    Audio from PC (TM FX middle row, "sw playbacks) are being routed to the corresponding HW output (TM FX bottom row), e.g.:
    SW playback AN1/2 -> HW output AN1/2
    SW playback AN3/4 -> HW output AN3/4
    ...

OK so far so nice, DAW mode without entering this "limited" mode.
But more fun and flexibility with TM FX Full mode.

You only need to know few things to be able to operate it. The step by step guide is kind of an "appetizer" for a good 1st time setup on which you can base on.

Basic difference to an analog mixer where you (more or less) only move input fader and thats it, because audio will be send to the monitoring section automatically. Here you need to define the channels for the control room 1st and perform routing on a per output base. Or in other words, in TM FX every HW output is like an AUX send on an analog mixer, if you know what I mean. With the knobs per fader whether you want to have this input on AUX send 1 ..4 or 1..8.
Well could you imaging an analog mixer with 64 knobs for AUX send 1..64 ... well would be a lot of knobs.

Therefore Submix mode in TM FX, the only way to operate this in a very nice way.
In TM FX you can create an individual submix for every HW output (bottom row), easiest in submix mode,
by selecting a particular HW Output and then to move fader of HW inputs and SW playback to create this submix.

As we had such questions already so often and as it is always a lot of typing we created a sticky article in this forum.
Please have a look of this collection of information.
There you will also find a step-by-step guide for a good 1st time setup and excellent RME training videos, which do not waste time with unnecessary bla bla and come quickly to the point:
https://forum.rme-audio.de/viewtopic.php?id=34394

Regarding external HW ...

a) with support of the DAW
Cubase has a possibility to create an external device, you only need to tell which analog outputs and inputs are in use.
Then Cubase sends a "ping" through it to calculate the latency automatically for delay compensation in the DAW when sending audio through it and thats it. I do not know how this is being handled in the sometimes "more conversative" Protools.

b) by routing in TM FX
Send something in the DAW to an HW output which is free. You will see audio appearing in TM FX middle row.
In Submix mode select the HW output and turn the fader of that SW playback up to 0dB.
Now you send audio out to this device.
The external device is plugged to some HW inputs, you should see audio coming in on the HW input.
This you can record in your DAW.

Thats it basically.

I would do the routing for monitoring through monitors and phones and store it to snapshots 1 + 2.
If all is ready
- save workspace to a file on disk for backup purposes and
- save it also to a workspace quick select slot (*)
(*) Then you can restore even multiple workspaces easily by pressing ALT+1, ALT+2, ... ALT-0 (this are 10*8 snapshot settings = 80 different routings at your fingertips). Up to 30 possible.

Wow, this is absolutely everything I needed. Thank you so much for the clarity and positive intent.
I spent most of today playing around in TM because I enjoyed it so much after taking some extra time with it.
You're right—the full mode can be just as streamlined, and it's a really excellent way to lay things out digitally!

All the best to ya!

4 Reply by ramses (edited by ramses 2022-02-03 06:47:32)

  • ramses
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  • Registered: 2012-10-14
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Re: PLEASE HELP—Basic Point to Point Routing

Wow, that is progress ! Enjoy wink

Maybe one addition in terms of external HW ... You need to set the proper reference levels on a per channel basis.
Rvery input and ouput has a tool/wrench symbol, by this you expand the channel and get more controls.

I think you might know this but short summary on choosing the proper levels / reflevels:

- HW outputs: if you choose a higher reference level you get a higher output volume.

- HW inputs: If you choose a higher reference level you get more threshold / a lower input signal.
  If you need a higher volume, you need to choose a lower reference level


The analog I/O of your FF 400 supports according to manual ch 29:

- Input sensitivity switchable to Lo Gain, +4 dBu, -10 dBV
• Input level for 0 dBFS @ Lo Gain: +19 dBu
• Input level for 0 dBFS @ +4 dBu: +13 dBu
• Input level for 0 dBFS @ -10 dBV: +2 dBV

See also manual ch 21.1: "With +4 dBu selected, the according headroom meets the latest EBU recommendations for Broadcast usage. At -10 dBV a headroom of 12 dB is common practice, each mixing desk operating at -10 dBV is able to send and receive much higher levels. Lo Gain is best suited for professional users who prefer to work balanced and at highest levels. Lo Gain provides 15 dB headroom at +4 dBu nominal level."

- Output level switchable Hi Gain, +4 dBu, -10 dBV
• Output level at 0 dBFS @ Hi Gain: +19 dBu
• Output level at 0 dBFS @ +4 dBu: +13 dBu
• Output level at 0 dBFS @ -10 dBV: +2 dBV

See also manual ch 22.1: "With +4 dBu selected, the according headroom meets the latest EBU recommendations for Broadcast usage. At -10 dBV a headroom of 12 dB is common practice, each mixing desk operating at -10 dBV is able to send and receive much higher levels. Hi Gain is best suited for professional users who prefer to work balanced and at highest levels. Hi Gain provides 15 dB headroom at +4 dBu nominal level"

BR Ramses - UFX III, 12Mic, XTC, ADI-2 Pro FS R BE, RayDAT, X10SRi-F, E5-1680v4, Win10Pro22H2, Cub13