Topic: ESS chip

Has anyone purchased one of the new UFX+ with the ESS chip?  Thoughts?

2 (edited by ramses 2022-04-05 11:38:50)

Re: ESS chip

RME will surely answer this question.

I think
- you won't notice any difference and that it will simply work, like with e.g. ADI-2 DAC
- if something would differ to announced specs, then it would be documented, so far I didn't see any notice.

BR Ramses
UFX+, 12Mic, XTC, ADI-2 Pro FS R BE, RayDAT, X10SRi-F, E5-1650v4, Win10Pro21H2, Cub12Pro

Re: ESS chip

Just a Joe wrote:

Has anyone purchased one of the new UFX+ with the ESS chip?  Thoughts?

Hi, I just found out that I have Revision 163 on my UFX+ purchased two weeks ago.

RME UFX+, ASUS X99 Deluxe II, CPU i7 6950X, 128 GB RAM, GC-Titan Ridge 2.0 + Apple TB3-TB2 Adapter

Re: ESS chip

Hi

I mean read here that UFX II and UFX+ remain with AKM-Chips.
Only ADI2DAC has ESS Chip now (before as well AKM).
I have UFX II but not opened it. My UFX II is older model, more than 2 years..

Peter

5 (edited by ramses 2022-04-07 09:42:07)

Re: ESS chip

Morning Peter how are you ? Hope all is good for you.

pschelbert wrote:

Hi
I mean read here that UFX II and UFX+ remain with AKM-Chips.
Only ADI2DAC has ESS Chip now (before as well AKM).
I have UFX II but not opened it. My UFX II is older model, more than 2 years..
Peter

There I remember different statements, that also UFX+ needed to be changed to use ESS chips.

Extended forum search (UFX+ AND ESS from MC) and voila wink

https://forum.rme-audio.de/viewtopic.ph … 79#p180179
In english: "MC 27.12.2021: [...] ESS are the current UFX+, where the ADC and DAC were changed because they were no longer available. The devices are otherwise identical. Therefore there are no new manuals or tech specs."

https://forum.rme-audio.de/viewtopic.ph … 21#p184221
"MC 22.02.2022: So you have the latest UFX+ with ESS chips. We will adjust the latency values in the next driver update to match better for this version."

BTW .. just looked into the MADIface drivers REAME file. The adjustment of latency values in the driver seems to be still due, as the last change of MADIface driver V 0.9747 was from last december (12/09/2021).

BR Ramses
UFX+, 12Mic, XTC, ADI-2 Pro FS R BE, RayDAT, X10SRi-F, E5-1650v4, Win10Pro21H2, Cub12Pro

Re: ESS chip

Babyface Pro FS has also replaced the ESS chip.

Re: ESS chip

Did they change to ESS in UFX II? From Serial Nummer xxxxxxx?

Re: ESS chip

AFAIR only UFX+ not UFX II.

BR Ramses
UFX+, 12Mic, XTC, ADI-2 Pro FS R BE, RayDAT, X10SRi-F, E5-1650v4, Win10Pro21H2, Cub12Pro

9

Re: ESS chip

No, UFX II is (meanwhile) also on ESS.

Regards
Matthias Carstens
RME

10 (edited by joachimvoelcker 2022-04-18 08:43:23)

Re: ESS chip

What is the difference now with the ESS es 9842qPRO and es9080q used in the UFX II and +

Re: ESS chip

Do they have the same specs?
AKM and ESS powered UFX + / II

Re: ESS chip

I bought ... And I think something is wrong, at least with my device. I hear barely noticeable, but I hear, clicks that appear at the ends of the tone, such as bass guitars, at the ends of the tone that have a short Release ... Before the last firmware it was worse, clicks appeared anywhere in the sound. I've tested it a lot, it's Analog OUT 1 to 8. Analog IN works great, at least as far as I've heard, and there are no clicks on Analog OUT 9-12 (headphones). So, Analog IN work well, but OUT has problems (maybe only on my device). I also have two RME FF800 devices, on which there are no problems of that kind. Of course, when playing the same tapes, on same computer. I'm waiting for an answer from the distributor who returned UFX II to me, thinking that the problem was solved with the latest firmware, 2022-04-11.

13 (edited by unodos 2022-04-27 19:19:26)

Re: ESS chip

dadodeva wrote:

I bought ... And I think something is wrong, at least with my device. I hear barely noticeable, but I hear, clicks that appear at the ends of the tone, such as bass guitars, at the ends of the tone that have a short Release ... Before the last firmware it was worse, clicks appeared anywhere in the sound. I've tested it a lot, it's Analog OUT 1 to 8. Analog IN works great, at least as far as I've heard, and there are no clicks on Analog OUT 9-12 (headphones). So, Analog IN work well, but OUT has problems (maybe only on my device). I also have two RME FF800 devices, on which there are no problems of that kind. Of course, when playing the same tapes, on same computer. I'm waiting for an answer from the distributor who returned UFX II to me, thinking that the problem was solved with the latest firmware, 2022-04-11.

I have had no issues before or after the latest firmware with an ESS chip (UFX+) asides from minor latency differences which should be fixed with a new driver release. I reckon that unit was just faulty

Re: ESS chip

unodos wrote:
dadodeva wrote:

I bought ... And I think something is wrong, at least with my device. I hear barely noticeable, but I hear, clicks that appear at the ends of the tone, such as bass guitars, at the ends of the tone that have a short Release ... Before the last firmware it was worse, clicks appeared anywhere in the sound. I've tested it a lot, it's Analog OUT 1 to 8. Analog IN works great, at least as far as I've heard, and there are no clicks on Analog OUT 9-12 (headphones). So, Analog IN work well, but OUT has problems (maybe only on my device). I also have two RME FF800 devices, on which there are no problems of that kind. Of course, when playing the same tapes, on same computer. I'm waiting for an answer from the distributor who returned UFX II to me, thinking that the problem was solved with the latest firmware, 2022-04-11.

I have had no issues before or after the latest firmware with an ESS chip (UFX+) asides from minor latency differences which should be fixed with a new driver release. I reckon that unit was just faulty


Thank you

15 (edited by pertidstrand 2022-05-09 10:48:05)

Re: ESS chip

I have this _exact_ problem, too, on my UFX+. I don't know if it is AKM or ESS. I have been in contact with RME support, and the latest firmware helped but unfortunately not entirely. The click noise is now moved from 2-3 seconds after audio release to instantly after audio release. I will have to do further tests to check this fully, but at the moment it unfortunately looks like the problem is still there - which makes it hard to use the analogue outs 1-8.

I have double checked with my older original UFX - dead silent, no clicks.

dadodeva wrote:

I bought ... And I think something is wrong, at least with my device. I hear barely noticeable, but I hear, clicks that appear at the ends of the tone, such as bass guitars, at the ends of the tone that have a short Release ... Before the last firmware it was worse, clicks appeared anywhere in the sound. I've tested it a lot, it's Analog OUT 1 to 8. Analog IN works great, at least as far as I've heard, and there are no clicks on Analog OUT 9-12 (headphones). So, Analog IN work well, but OUT has problems (maybe only on my device). I also have two RME FF800 devices, on which there are no problems of that kind. Of course, when playing the same tapes, on same computer. I'm waiting for an answer from the distributor who returned UFX II to me, thinking that the problem was solved with the latest firmware, 2022-04-11.

Re: ESS chip

This is quite a strange issue, have you got a recording of it? I can try and compare with my unit. Very likely a hardware fault

17 (edited by pertidstrand 2022-05-10 09:34:58)

Re: ESS chip

Yes I have. Here is a google drive link:
https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/ … RLFhM6cz6e
The recording and screenshots etc is from before the firmware update from 2022 04 04. There is an example of what it sounds like (with and without amplification of the click) and a screenshot.

It is not visible in Totalmix or Digicheck. I recorded it in Pro Tools. First, using Totalmix Loopback, there is no click audible or visible. But when recording the physical analog outputs it is there. So what I am thinking is the this is not happening in the digital domain, but on the hardware / analog side of things.

It doesn't matter which software I use - ProTools, Logic, Spotify, Quicktime, etc, - Music, White Noise Generator - any audio.

The test is from a week ago (as said above before the firmware update), I disconnected speakers and everything. Only UFX+ running with my MacBook, so that I could record all 8 of it’s analog outs. I connected them to the original UFX in two passes: UFX+ 1-4 to UFX Mic/Line 9-12 and a second pass with UFX+ 5-8 to UFX Mic/Line 9-12. I have used Clip Gain to amplify the click noise and the waveform of it.

And again, when I am now back to using my old original UFX, everything is silent, no clicks - this device is working perfectly.

I have been in contact with RME support, Daniel recommended me to run the firmware update (Fireface UFX+: V 54/46/110, V68/46/164: TB: Made ready for DriverKit. ESS DAC: low level control optimized.) - which I did - it helped but unfortunately not entirely. I won't have time for a full test of the behaviour with the new firmware in the nearest time, but in a quick test it seems that the click noise is now moved from 2-3 seconds after audio release, to instantly after audio release, so unfortunately it looks like it is still there.

All best, Per

Re: ESS chip

With my UFX II (ESS) I didn´t notice this click in Out 1-4 but I will check it.

Only one click?

19 (edited by unodos 2022-05-10 21:25:58)

Re: ESS chip

pertidstrand wrote:

Yes I have. Here is a google drive link:
https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/ … RLFhM6cz6e
The recording and screenshots etc is from before the firmware update from 2022 04 04. There is an example of what it sounds like (with and without amplification of the click) and a screenshot.

It is not visible in Totalmix or Digicheck. I recorded it in Pro Tools. First, using Totalmix Loopback, there is no click audible or visible. But when recording the physical analog outputs it is there. So what I am thinking is the this is not happening in the digital domain, but on the hardware / analog side of things.

It doesn't matter which software I use - ProTools, Logic, Spotify, Quicktime, etc, - Music, White Noise Generator - any audio.

The test is from a week ago (as said above before the firmware update), I disconnected speakers and everything. Only UFX+ running with my MacBook, so that I could record all 8 of it’s analog outs. I connected them to the original UFX in two passes: UFX+ 1-4 to UFX Mic/Line 9-12 and a second pass with UFX+ 5-8 to UFX Mic/Line 9-12. I have used Clip Gain to amplify the click noise and the waveform of it.

And again, when I am now back to using my old original UFX, everything is silent, no clicks - this device is working perfectly.

I have been in contact with RME support, Daniel recommended me to run the firmware update (Fireface UFX+: V 54/46/110, V68/46/164: TB: Made ready for DriverKit. ESS DAC: low level control optimized.) - which I did - it helped but unfortunately not entirely. I won't have time for a full test of the behaviour with the new firmware in the nearest time, but in a quick test it seems that the click noise is now moved from 2-3 seconds after audio release, to instantly after audio release, so unfortunately it looks like it is still there.

All best, Per

I can't replicate this click at the end following recording - I tested just now with a few different physical analog output->input combinations with just the UFX+ and recorded back into Ableton; this displayed silence after audio stopped.

I think it must be happening somewhere during conversion and not strictly the analog phase, as the audio coming out of the UFX+ is eventually converted back to digital on the UFX end. If you use a splitter and connect headphones to two individual analog outs, can you hear clicks when stopping recording?

Other than that, check for USB Diagnosis errors in MADIface settings - they should all read '0' during playback/record apart from the minute counter on the bottom far right.

Support may also ask for Hardware test results (Setup/Rev->Hardware->Test Results) For reference, mine are "0-0000-0000-19-0-MSD"

Re: ESS chip

Joachim, it's only one click.

Unodos, thanks for your input. it is definitely only on Analog Out 1-8. I can see no USB errors, I have tried different cables. Digicheck/Driver/Interface Statistics not reporting any errors. Test results hardware 0 0000 0000 19 0 163, SW 46 (also I reported all that in conversation with support).

You are probably right on where it's happening. My thought is that if this was possible to affect with firmware, then it has something to do with the digitally controllable parts, like different kinds of filtering for the DAC.

But it also may be misbehaving/faulty firmware controllable parts, meaning not a universal problem affecting all units.

All best, Per

Re: ESS chip

Clicks at end of file or when stopping can be a symptom of DC offset. You could check with digicheck or remove dc offset with an editor and see if it cures it. If yes then starts the search for the source of the DC offset.

Vincent, Amsterdam
https://soundcloud.com/thesecretworld
Babyface pro fs, HDSP9652+ADI-8AE, HDSP9632

Re: ESS chip

Yes. And in my opinion the problem is in the huge DC offset. I sent a message to RME support almost a month ago about that, but I didn't get an answer ... By the way, it's easiest to recognize a problem if we play an instrument with a short release. For example bass guitar.

vinark wrote:

Clicks at end of file or when stopping can be a symptom of DC offset. You could check with digicheck or remove dc offset with an editor and see if it cures it. If yes then starts the search for the source of the DC offset.

Re: ESS chip

But is the DC offset there without anything plugged in? Upstream devices can have DC offset, like DI Micpres etc
Is there DC when you connect an input to an output on the RME?

Vincent, Amsterdam
https://soundcloud.com/thesecretworld
Babyface pro fs, HDSP9652+ADI-8AE, HDSP9632

Re: ESS chip

Can a DC offset be moved in time by a firmware upgrade?

Re: ESS chip

vinark wrote:

Clicks at end of file or when stopping can be a symptom of DC offset. You could check with digicheck or remove dc offset with an editor and see if it cures it. If yes then starts the search for the source of the DC offset.

I'm not sure if it is DC offset here - if you look at the recorded waveforms there isn't any offset during recording, surely that would be a constant displacement?

Re: ESS chip

No you need software to check for DC. Digi heck can do that for both inputs and playback and if your inputs are DC free, you can measure if your outputs have DC via physical loopback. Of your unconnected inputs are DC free you can then check if what you are recording has DC. So if you dither your dawn output to 16 bits with a gun and the clicks are not there when Aying an offending file, you can be sure the file haar DC. You say the clicks are soft so it will be quit small DC.
It then again it might not be DC at all.

Vincent, Amsterdam
https://soundcloud.com/thesecretworld
Babyface pro fs, HDSP9652+ADI-8AE, HDSP9632

27 (edited by pertidstrand 2022-05-20 10:07:22)

Re: ESS chip

Digicheck Bitstatistics and Noise

Inputs show nothing wrong with bit states on both devices, and with nothing connected inputs show:

on UFX+
RMS LB  -115 to -118 dB
RMS A -117 to -120 dB
DC -135 to -150 dB

on original UFX
RMS LB  -109 to -111 dB
RMS A -110 to -113 dB
DC -135 to -150 dB

When stopping playback, output from UFX+, physically connected to both devices, their inputs show bit states values blue 0 and red 1 during the click and DC Peaks at around -75 dB.

So, some form of DC spike from outputs?

Images here:
https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/ … sp=sharing

(I tried headphone outs too - I recorded sine, square and white noise from UFX+ Headphone output 9-10 too, but couldn’t find the click there.)

Re: ESS chip

New firmware came out today, but the old click problems are not solved !! ??

pertidstrand wrote:

Digicheck Bitstatistics and Noise

Inputs show nothing wrong with bit states on both devices, and with nothing connected inputs show:

on UFX+
RMS LB  -115 to -118 dB
RMS A -117 to -120 dB
DC -135 to -150 dB

on original UFX
RMS LB  -109 to -111 dB
RMS A -110 to -113 dB
DC -135 to -150 dB

When stopping playback, output from UFX+, physically connected to both devices, their inputs show bit states values blue 0 and red 1 during the click and DC Peaks at around -75 dB.

So, some form of DC spike from outputs?

I tried headphone outs too - I recorded sine, square and white noise from UFX+ Headphone output 9-10 too, but couldn’t find the click there. Only the White Noise signal showed a sign of noise / waveform (as also in the A/B test above with original UFX) So only click on Analog out 1-8, what I can find.

29 (edited by pertidstrand 2022-05-19 20:22:38)

Re: ESS chip

My tests are with the firmware from April (USB FUT) 2022-04-04
Update to firmware version USB 54, TB 110, DSP 46 (AKM) and USB 68, TB 164, DSP 46 (ESS).

30 (edited by pertidstrand 2022-05-20 10:12:47)

Re: ESS chip

Fadeout test

As I could hear clicks during fadeouts also, I wanted to test with recording fadeouts of various length, from a few seconds to a full minute.

In Digicheck inputs show nothing wrong with bit states but show DC Peaks at around -75 dB during fadeouts.

Clicks are visible in the waveforms and audible during fadeouts, I tested with sine waves and square waves.  
I tested with 0 dB and 20 dB preamp gain + clip gain to amplify. Always towards the end, probably a certain threshold value causing the spike.

Screenshots and audio examples in google drive:
https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/ … sp=sharing

So the clicks are not only after audio playback, but actually an integrated part of the audio too, when falling below a certain level.