Topic: Fireface 800 and Ventura MacOS

Hey,
searched any clear information, but still not sure do I have to start planning to figure out replacement for FF800? Now it runs great on MBP M1 with 2 dongles into Thunderbolt 3 port.
Will drivers be updated or current ones also will work? Do not want to try beta of Ventura but maybe someone did?

2 (edited by Apfel 2022-09-18 13:38:15)

Re: Fireface 800 and Ventura MacOS

Hi,

to my knowledge Apple will discontinue any Firewire support with Ventura. RME will be unable to do something about it and there won't be new drivers (as they told me). So one will have to stick with Monterey.

I have a Fireface 800 working perfectly on a M1 iMac with Monterey. Because that machine's purpose is only for doing that alone so I will have no need for an upgrade to Ventura for other reasons.

Michael

iMac M1, Fireface 800, Logic Pro X

Re: Fireface 800 and Ventura MacOS

Same here. Agree then. Browsing or mail will work anyways:)
And seems have to move to usb/TB eventually.

Re: Fireface 800 and Ventura MacOS

atrodysimgerai wrote:

And seems have to move to usb/TB eventually.

I won't spend thousands of Euros for a new USB-Interface of the same quality as the Fireface as long as that one works. It is 17 years old. One never knows …

iMac M1, Fireface 800, Logic Pro X

Re: Fireface 800 and Ventura MacOS

This device has been such an amazing and perfect workhorse, and it's a damn shame Apple are killing off connectivity for it (most hardcore FF800 heads have a TB3 ext PCI chassis to use TI-based firewire cards to keep on truckin' ).

Since this may finally be the "end of the road" on MacOS capabilities to allow FF800 to go another decade --- I wonder if we could perhaps rally RME to offer a one-time discount to existing FF8000 owners to make the move to their newer interfaces?

6 (edited by TX-Jdub 2022-10-27 04:52:03)

Re: Fireface 800 and Ventura MacOS

Thread update: FireWire 800 is supported, and FireFace 800 works with Ventura at release time Oct 25 2022!

Re: Fireface 800 and Ventura MacOS

Good news for anyone who has an RME Fireface 800 interface.

I can confirm that it is working without the slightest problem with MacOS Ventura.

I use the apple USB-C->thunderbolt cable -> Firewire -> Thunderbolt -> Firewire 800 cable snake combination and it is working absolutely brilliantly.

I am using Ableton 11 and it found the Fireface 800 without a hitch. All plugins seem to work fine so far and I am very relieved as the rumours made me think I would have to buy a new sound interface!

So feel free to upgrade if you wish. :-)

Re: Fireface 800 and Ventura MacOS

Great!

I think I will wait for Ventura 13.1 anyway. But good to know that Firewire support is still there in Ventura.

iMac M1, Fireface 800, Logic Pro X

Re: Fireface 800 and Ventura MacOS

dmb wrote:

Good news for anyone who has an RME Fireface 800 interface.

Great news... Thanks mate... I have the same connection like you... Happy to hear that... :))

Re: Fireface 800 and Ventura MacOS

thats great!
tho went already another direction with EVO16+ferrofish adat, and FF800 now is as a standalone mixer, as never enough analog inputs:)
only one free channel left:)
https://ibb.co/7SVh20j

Re: Fireface 800 and Ventura MacOS

dmb wrote:

Good news for anyone who has an RME Fireface 800 interface.

I can confirm that it is working without the slightest problem with MacOS Ventura.

I use the apple USB-C->thunderbolt cable -> Firewire -> Thunderbolt -> Firewire 800 cable snake combination and it is working absolutely brilliantly.

I am using Ableton 11 and it found the Fireface 800 without a hitch. All plugins seem to work fine so far and I am very relieved as the rumours made me think I would have to buy a new sound interface!

So feel free to upgrade if you wish. :-)


Hi man. Can you please contact me on private? I have MacBook Pro 2022 M2 with ventura and Fireface 800.
Had download the last driver and bought all cables but when I connect the apps doesent open like total mix etc. can you please help me ?

Re: Fireface 800 and Ventura MacOS

dmb wrote:

Good news for anyone who has an RME Fireface 800 interface.

I can confirm that it is working without the slightest problem with MacOS Ventura.

I use the apple USB-C->thunderbolt cable -> Firewire -> Thunderbolt -> Firewire 800 cable snake combination and it is working absolutely brilliantly.

I am using Ableton 11 and it found the Fireface 800 without a hitch. All plugins seem to work fine so far and I am very relieved as the rumours made me think I would have to buy a new sound interface!

So feel free to upgrade if you wish. :-)

Also here, Fireface 400 (which uses the same driver as the 800) works absolutely well on Mac mini M1 2020 with Ventura 13.1 on it (same double-adapter-snake as Gianste). Only thing I had once is a not recognized interface when it's plugged in the already running Mac. Because my Fireface doesn't work with bus power anyway, I simply have to power up it first before starting the Mac.

FF 400 - Babyface pro - Digiface USB - ADI-2 (original)
Mac mini M1 - Macbook pro - iPad Air2

Re: Fireface 800 and Ventura MacOS

Fireface 800 seems to work flawlessly with Ventura 13.1 on iMac i7. 

Connecting the Fireface by chaining a Firewire 800 -> Thunderbolt adapter into a Thunderbolt -> USB-C adapter. 

After upgrading the Mac OS to Ventura, powered up the Fireface 800 which immediately launched the RME TotalMix and RME Fireface Setting apps in the background.  All of the inputs show up in Logic and so far everything seems to work just as before the Ventura upgrade.

Thanks guys for posting your findings and thanks RME for building the brilliant Fireface 800! 

Cheers all!

Re: Fireface 800 and Ventura MacOS

I have a FF 400 and recently bought (as in last week) a M1 Pro MBP. I went to my rehearsal studio where my FF400 is. Did the whole thing with allowing 3P kernels, and put on the latest RME drivers.

Plugged in the FF400 with the Apple FW800-->TB2 then TB2-->TB3 adapters.

The computer recognizes the FF400 and the ADAT ins... but isn't taking any signal. However, it does take signal from the FF400's SPDIF inputs (I plug my Line 6 Helix in via SPDIF for tracking in the room).

I'm not sure if I have an issue with my Audio/Midi settings or what, but this is super frustrating. We had a jam last night that I really wish I could have recorded.

I'd appreciate any guidance on this front.

Re: Fireface 800 and Ventura MacOS

dirtyfunkg wrote:

I have a FF 400 and recently bought (as in last week) a M1 Pro MBP. I went to my rehearsal studio where my FF400 is. Did the whole thing with allowing 3P kernels, and put on the latest RME drivers.

Plugged in the FF400 with the Apple FW800-->TB2 then TB2-->TB3 adapters.

The computer recognizes the FF400 and the ADAT ins... but isn't taking any signal. However, it does take signal from the FF400's SPDIF inputs (I plug my Line 6 Helix in via SPDIF for tracking in the room).

I'm not sure if I have an issue with my Audio/Midi settings or what, but this is super frustrating. We had a jam last night that I really wish I could have recorded.

I'd appreciate any guidance on this front.

Hi! Welcome to the forum.
At least it seems the installation process went well so far. Anyway strange behaviour…
Do I get it right, the SPDIF input is the only working one? No signal neither from the analog 1-8 inputs nor from ADAT 1-8?
On your previous computer there was all ok? What OS was on there?
The firmware version is a point to check for sure.
Then also the settings in Mac audio/midi app, are there all channels active?
To go further some screenshots would be very helpful (TotalMix window, Fireface settings, audio/midi setup).

FF 400 - Babyface pro - Digiface USB - ADI-2 (original)
Mac mini M1 - Macbook pro - iPad Air2

Re: Fireface 800 and Ventura MacOS

I'm sorry, but where is the driver of Fireface 800 for Ventura 13.3.1????

dmb wrote:

Good news for anyone who has an RME Fireface 800 interface.

I can confirm that it is working without the slightest problem with MacOS Ventura.

I use the apple USB-C->thunderbolt cable -> Firewire -> Thunderbolt -> Firewire 800 cable snake combination and it is working absolutely brilliantly.

I am using Ableton 11 and it found the Fireface 800 without a hitch. All plugins seem to work fine so far and I am very relieved as the rumours made me think I would have to buy a new sound interface!

So feel free to upgrade if you wish. :-)

Re: Fireface 800 and Ventura MacOS

efiddler wrote:

Fireface 800 seems to work flawlessly with Ventura 13.1 on iMac i7. 

Connecting the Fireface by chaining a Firewire 800 -> Thunderbolt adapter into a Thunderbolt -> USB-C adapter. 

After upgrading the Mac OS to Ventura, powered up the Fireface 800 which immediately launched the RME TotalMix and RME Fireface Setting apps in the background.  All of the inputs show up in Logic and so far everything seems to work just as before the Ventura upgrade.

Thanks guys for posting your findings and thanks RME for building the brilliant Fireface 800! 

Cheers all!

I'm sorry... I don't find the driver for fireface 800 with Ventura 13.3.1.
Could you help me?
thanks

Re: Fireface 800 and Ventura MacOS

senzabbento wrote:

I'm sorry... I don't find the driver for fireface 800 with Ventura 13.3.1.
Could you help me?
thanks

It’s the one for macOS 11/12 on the RME site, there isn’t a specific one for macOS 13.

FF 400 - Babyface pro - Digiface USB - ADI-2 (original)
Mac mini M1 - Macbook pro - iPad Air2

Re: Fireface 800 and Ventura MacOS

I can't install driver 341.
This message appears: "installation failed".

Re: Fireface 800 and Ventura MacOS

Did you follow this instructions ?
https://www.rme-audio.de/rme-treiber-macos.html

M1-Sonoma, Madiface Pro, Digiface USB, Babyface silver and blue

Re: Fireface 800 and Ventura MacOS

This may be a possible solution for you?  I've seen a few positive mentions on other forums but .. I haven't tried it myself.

https://developer.apple.com/forums/thread/721151

I'm using a Hackintosh with OpenCore so I'll see if I can just install the unmodified kext (from Monterey) with OpenCore as OpenCore has no problem injecting Kexts into MacOS.

Apple really has Zero concern for their users.  After they killed Final Cut Pro 64-bit in favor of the dumbed down consumer parody of Final Cut Pro - my MacPro loaded with ECC RAM became a whole lot less useful .. so I switched all video production to Windows and haven't looked back.

Logic Pro X is still a great program though - and the Only reason I stay in the Apple eco system - as their software for iPad/iPhone/Watch etc. is just so poorly designed .. as if by .. Children it's so buggy and problematic.

22 (edited by oli77sch 2023-04-29 11:36:13)

Re: Fireface 800 and Ventura MacOS

senzabbento wrote:

I can't install driver 341.
This message appears: "installation failed".

Where is the driver installation file stored after download? There seem to be issues with cloud storage (Dropbox).
See here: https://forum.rme-audio.de/viewtopic.php?id=37331

FF 400 - Babyface pro - Digiface USB - ADI-2 (original)
Mac mini M1 - Macbook pro - iPad Air2

Re: Fireface 800 and Ventura MacOS

Returning to this thread to make mention of FF800 and upcoming MacOS Sonoma.

I intend to install a mature beta of this on my one of my main audio Apple Silicon Macs in a month or so, and test.   I expect our time may be running (or might have already run...) out on this amazing legacy interface (FF 800) working on this OS.   But we will know for sure soon, so people can plan.   

Take a moment to appreciate this amazing gear, it lived through something like 14 OS releases and STILL even worked natively on Apple Silicon recently.

Anyway, hope to know more in a few weeks.  Watch this space.

FYI my connection chain is: Mac Studio M1 Ultra (and MBP 14 M1 Max at other times) ---> Thunderbolt to PCI Chassis ---> TI chip-based FireWire 800 PCI Express card ---> RME FF800.   

I have had 100% reliability with the above setup, which I arrived at after giving-up on using Apple's original FW-to-Thunderbolt adapter connected to their --> TB to TB3 adapter.

I will be back by sometime in July to report how it works on a mature MacOS Sonoma beta, but everyone should be prepared that Ventura might have been our last most recent compatible OS. 

It is fair to RME to assume that  their Apple Silicon / Ventura legacy driver extension was a 100% gift to the longtime FF800 Mac user comminuted.  And if Sonoma removes the ability for these drivers to work, it is not on RME...but on Apple. 

At any rate, after a decade and-a-half, this will have been by far the best audio gear experience I have ever had.  FF800 Never let me down. 

Maybe RME could consider having some possible upgrades promotions by Xmas, for loyal FF 800 Mac holdouts who never upgraded?  Just an idea, at any rate once-again I want to thank RME the RME FF800.   See you all in July...

Re: Fireface 800 and Ventura MacOS

TX-Jdub wrote:

Returning to this thread to make mention of FF800 and upcoming MacOS Sonoma.

I intend to install a mature beta of this on my one of my main audio Apple Silicon Macs in a month or so, and test.   I expect our time may be running (or might have already run...) out on this amazing legacy interface (FF 800) working on this OS.   But we will know for sure soon, so people can plan.   

Take a moment to appreciate this amazing gear, it lived through something like 14 OS releases and STILL even worked natively on Apple Silicon recently.

Anyway, hope to know more in a few weeks.  Watch this space.

FYI my connection chain is: Mac Studio M1 Ultra (and MBP 14 M1 Max at other times) ---> Thunderbolt to PCI Chassis ---> TI chip-based FireWire 800 PCI Express card ---> RME FF800.   

I have had 100% reliability with the above setup, which I arrived at after giving-up on using Apple's original FW-to-Thunderbolt adapter connected to their --> TB to TB3 adapter.

I will be back by sometime in July to report how it works on a mature MacOS Sonoma beta, but everyone should be prepared that Ventura might have been our last most recent compatible OS. 

It is fair to RME to assume that  their Apple Silicon / Ventura legacy driver extension was a 100% gift to the longtime FF800 Mac user comminuted.  And if Sonoma removes the ability for these drivers to work, it is not on RME...but on Apple. 

At any rate, after a decade and-a-half, this will have been by far the best audio gear experience I have ever had.  FF800 Never let me down. 

Maybe RME could consider having some possible upgrades promotions by Xmas, for loyal FF 800 Mac holdouts who never upgraded?  Just an idea, at any rate once-again I want to thank RME the RME FF800.   See you all in July...

I wonder if you managed to make any progress with this? I'm about to upgrade my entire system to an M2 Max and I'm curious if I will still be able to use my FF800 going forward... I know it's a big ask, but it's also a lot of money to spend! Thanks

25 (edited by cbaxter33 2023-09-09 16:51:13)

Re: Fireface 800 and Ventura MacOS

TX-Jdub wrote:

Returning to this thread to make mention of FF800 and upcoming MacOS Sonoma.

I intend to install a mature beta of this on my one of my main audio Apple Silicon Macs in a month or so, and test.   I expect our time may be running (or might have already run...) out on this amazing legacy interface (FF 800) working on this OS.   But we will know for sure soon, so people can plan.   

Take a moment to appreciate this amazing gear, it lived through something like 14 OS releases and STILL even worked natively on Apple Silicon recently.

Anyway, hope to know more in a few weeks.  Watch this space.

FYI my connection chain is: Mac Studio M1 Ultra (and MBP 14 M1 Max at other times) ---> Thunderbolt to PCI Chassis ---> TI chip-based FireWire 800 PCI Express card ---> RME FF800.   

I have had 100% reliability with the above setup, which I arrived at after giving-up on using Apple's original FW-to-Thunderbolt adapter connected to their --> TB to TB3 adapter.

I will be back by sometime in July to report how it works on a mature MacOS Sonoma beta, but everyone should be prepared that Ventura might have been our last most recent compatible OS. 

It is fair to RME to assume that  their Apple Silicon / Ventura legacy driver extension was a 100% gift to the longtime FF800 Mac user comminuted.  And if Sonoma removes the ability for these drivers to work, it is not on RME...but on Apple. 

At any rate, after a decade and-a-half, this will have been by far the best audio gear experience I have ever had.  FF800 Never let me down. 

Maybe RME could consider having some possible upgrades promotions by Xmas, for loyal FF 800 Mac holdouts who never upgraded?  Just an idea, at any rate once-again I want to thank RME the RME FF800.   See you all in July...

I am in the same boat with an M2 Mini and FF800 (although using the FW -> TB2 -> TB3 adapter chain), definitely hoping to find out if Sonoma is still going to allow legacy KEXTs from RME to work, or if this is the end of the line and an 802 FS needs to find it's way to my rig... 

Absolutely nothing wrong with the FF800; I've had mine for almost 20 years at this point and it is still an amazing interface so I'm also really hoping we might be able to stretch a little further. 

I'd be very appreciative if you have any additional info from your testing!!!

Thanks!
bax

Re: Fireface 800 and Ventura MacOS

I also have the FF400 I and am wondering if it will work with macOS Sonoma. Would be brilliant if it does.

27 (edited by TX-Jdub 2023-09-27 21:09:08)

Re: Fireface 800 and Ventura MacOS

Hey guys my DEEPEST APOLOGIES for not updating this post earlier this summer in my plans to test Sonoma Dev Beta with FF800.  It didn't 100% work at first in July, and I was disheartened but then found there was a bug in Thunderbolt-to-PCI chassis (how I use my FF800) driver instantiation in Sonoma Beta.  That got fixed in late July or Aug, and I was able to see/use my FF800 just fine as always, on my test machine.

Today I further confirmed this by moving my main rigs (Mac Studio and MBP 14 both M1 chips) to the released Sonoma and my FF800 works fine from both.  Here is the caveat to my particular FF800 Chain -- because I doubt using ANY Apple Firewire adapters would EVER work going forward.  This is how I am working with FF800:

My main connection chain is a Mac Studio M1 Ultra (and MBP 14 M1 Max at other times) ---> Thunderbolt to PCI Chassis ---> TI chip-based FireWire 800 PCI Express card ---> RME FF800. 

Further, on Apple Silicon Macs you MUST take an additional step to enable the RME System Extension: you MUST reboot and adjust your driver extension security level using the Startup Security Utility -- if you don't, neither Ventura nor Sonoma allows the FF800 System Extension (kernel driver) to load.  MacOS Ventura/Sonoma actually walk you through the steps, after FF800 driver installation completes - but Apple / RME are not going to bail you out if you cannot do this step (it worked for me on two Macs).  Note: if you already did this on Ventura in the past year, you won't have to do it again after Sonoma upgrade.

RME info for doing the above reboot steps (only needed for legacy drivers, btw, their current drivers do not need this) for the Startup Security Utility is here:
https://www.rme-audio.de/rme-macos.html/

Note: this technically, according to Apple, reduces your Security somewhat (because modern Malware may try to install unsigned System Extensions).  The remedy for this is: don't EVER install anything unsigned, other than these drivers, EVER.  And you will be fine.  If your Studio setup has other people installing things from all over the place - then I don't know what to tell you. smile

The above is how I got all this to work in Ventura, and now Sonoma.  And, again, I did not have to re-install the last RME drivers or anything on existing systems (nor did I have to re-do the Security Startup Utility steps above -- that is only needed on fresh driver installs).  So if you already had FF800 working on Ventura, you're golden and good-to-go for upgrading.   As always, YMMV and I advise that you make sure you always check the TotalMix forum in here, to download the latest updates to Mac version of TotalMix -- because the last FF800 drivers (released in 2021) contain and older version of TM.   And, OF COURSE, always back up before upgrading your MacOS!!

So, to recap, we MacOS FF800 users live to fight another year -- with the connection chain above, anyway. I really doubt Firewire adapters will work anymore, but PCI chassis w/ a TI chip-based PCI Firewire Card DOES.

But DO REMEMBER: Apple officially does not support Firewire peripherals, and this is an EOL interface (as gloriously beautiful and powerful as it still is...) and functions on borrowed time.  So our blessing could go away at ANY TIME with ANY future MacOS update (including Sonoma updates).  So, always back-up your system, and be cautious and test.

If Apple keeps this loophole (PCI --> Firewire 800 cards) working -- RME may have to just bite the bullet and give us a discount program to turn in our trusty FF800s for their latest-gen gear.  lol

Peace out, and good luck everyone!

28

Re: Fireface 800 and Ventura MacOS

https://www.rme-audio.de/rme-macos.html

Regards
Matthias Carstens
RME

29 (edited by TX-Jdub 2023-09-27 21:05:00)

Re: Fireface 800 and Ventura MacOS

Thank you for posting this MC!  I looked around but didn't see it - revising my post above to go here instead.

Re: Fireface 800 and Ventura MacOS

TX-Jdub wrote:

Hey guys my DEEPEST APOLOGIES for not updating this post earlier this summer

Thanks for your update and detailed reply TX! I'm mainly curious that you say "I really doubt Firewire adapters will work anymore" and wonder if this is based on knowledge or speculation?

I only have this option (FW800>TB2>USB-C) so curious if I stand a chance or whether I have to accept my fate...

It's frustrating because the 802 is basically the same unit at great expense! I don't know why Firewire was adopted in interfaces when USB2 was sufficient and still the standard today!

Re: Fireface 800 and Ventura MacOS

siderealxxx wrote:

… I don't know why Firewire was adopted in interfaces when USB2 was sufficient and still the standard today!

Because in the early 2000s FireWire was the standard for multichannel audio interfaces. USB 2.0 was just newly introduced and not yet established for such purposes. Fireface UC as the first RME interface with USB 2.0 was introduced around 2009/10 as far I know. Fireface 800 is much older.

FF 400 - Babyface pro - Digiface USB - ADI-2 (original)
Mac mini M1 - Macbook pro - iPad Air2

Re: Fireface 800 and Ventura MacOS

siderealxxx wrote:
TX-Jdub wrote:

Hey guys my DEEPEST APOLOGIES for not updating this post earlier this summer

Thanks for your update and detailed reply TX! I'm mainly curious that you say "I really doubt Firewire adapters will work anymore" and wonder if this is based on knowledge or speculation?

I only have this option (FW800>TB2>USB-C) so curious if I stand a chance or whether I have to accept my fate...

It's frustrating because the 802 is basically the same unit at great expense! I don't know why Firewire was adopted in interfaces when USB2 was sufficient and still the standard today!

I mainly am speaking to what in recent years has developed with Apple's slow walk away from FireWire.  Even now you need TB3-to-TB2 adapter to use their TB Firewire adapter.  And there are a lot of Developer posts like the one below talking about FW support coming to an end and frustrations with Apple about it:
https://developer.apple.com/forums/thread/721151

For my rig, a few years ago I got tired of fumbling with the FW adapter on my TB3 devices - so when I retired my last TB2 Mac - I purchased a PCI Chassis and TI Chip-based FW800 PCI card, and haven't looked back.  But no idea if Apple's upcoming FW compatibility ending will stop this PCI Chassis connection method.  I suspect it will. sad    It is a shame b/c FW800 was always just such a reliable bus.